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Please offer your grading opinion on this 1887 Indian Head Cent

Started by coinman_23885,

18 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted

Please offer your grading opinion on this 1887 Indian Head Cent and whether you believe that this coin would receive a + designation or CAC sticker at that grade. The coin is in a new NGC holder before they began the plus grading designation...

 

1887_1C_Obverse.png

 

1887_1C_Reverse.png

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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The angle of lighting makes it impossible for me to get a good feel for luster and color. I'll guess MS-64 RB. Since I don't give a hoot about pluses or stickers, I'll defer to other opinions on that aspect.

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Coinsman63

Coinsman63

Posted
Posted
Please offer your grading opinion on this 1887 Indian Head Cent and whether you believe that this coin would receive a + designation or CAC sticker at that grade. The coin is in a new NGC holder before they began the plus grading designation...

 

1887_1C_Obverse.png

 

1887_1C_Reverse.png

 

I don't collect the antique pennies, but I'll guess 64-66 RB.

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Mark T

Mark T

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MS 64 RB . We cannot determine if it would receive a CAC sticker unless we knew the grade. I will say if this coin is in a RD holder then I would doubt it would get a sticker.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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MS 64 RB . We cannot determine if it would receive a CAC sticker unless we knew the grade. I will say if this coin is in a RD holder then I would doubt it would get a sticker.

 

That's exactly why I posted the coin here. It is in a red holder, but I expect that the coin is a true red-brown as all of you have indicated. I bought this at auction, and was prepared for the coin to only be a true red-brown and perhaps a point lower, but I haven't seen the coin in my hands yet to determine whether or not it is the lighting.

 

With regards to grading, for those who rated the coin MS64, what do you think keeps this coin from MS65? Is it the luster? I'll post a picture of the coin in its new NGC slab in a few days.

 

In response to Mark T, does CAC consider attributions/color designations as part of the coin's "grade"? I didn't think they considered that or I wouldn't have ever posted a question about CAC stickers. lol

 

It looks 65RB to me. Sometimes, however, images make BN copper appear to be RB. If that is the case here, a BN designation wouldn't surprise me.

 

Do you think it is at the lower end of the MS65 spectrum, or do you feel that the coin would be a solid fit in your opinion?

 

Thanks again for everyone who has posted a response; your advice and time has been greatly appreciated. If I am able to take better photographs when the coin is in my hands, I'll post them.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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With regards to grading, for those who rated the coin MS64, what do you think keeps this coin from MS65? Is it the luster? I'll post a picture of the coin in its new NGC slab in a few days.

For me, Yes. It looked like MS-65 quality surfaces to me, but with a near-total lack of luster. So I downgraded to MS-64.

 

If it's just a bad image and the luster rocks, then an MS-65 is easily warranted!

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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MS 64 RB . We cannot determine if it would receive a CAC sticker unless we knew the grade. I will say if this coin is in a RD holder then I would doubt it would get a sticker.

 

That's exactly why I posted the coin here. It is in a red holder, but I expect that the coin is a true red-brown as all of you have indicated. I bought this at auction, and was prepared for the coin to only be a true red-brown and perhaps a point lower, but I haven't seen the coin in my hands yet to determine whether or not it is the lighting.

 

With regards to grading, for those who rated the coin MS64, what do you think keeps this coin from MS65? Is it the luster? I'll post a picture of the coin in its new NGC slab in a few days.

 

In response to Mark T, does CAC consider attributions/color designations as part of the coin's "grade"? I didn't think they considered that or I wouldn't have ever posted a question about CAC stickers. lol

 

It looks 65RB to me. Sometimes, however, images make BN copper appear to be RB. If that is the case here, a BN designation wouldn't surprise me.

 

Do you think it is at the lower end of the MS65 spectrum, or do you feel that the coin would be a solid fit in your opinion?

 

Thanks again for everyone who has posted a response; your advice and time has been greatly appreciated. If I am able to take better photographs when the coin is in my hands, I'll post them.

It looks like a solid 65 to me, but I wouldn't have any interest in it if it is designated "RD".

 

And I don't understand why you bought it, while, at the same time, not expecting it to be a true RD". It is dangerous to pay "RD" money for non-red copper coins.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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And I don't understand why you bought it, while, at the same time, not expecting it to be a true RD". It is dangerous to pay "RD" money for non-red copper coins.

 

I didn't pay red money for it. I paid red-brown money for it. I used the term "concern" loosely. I'm completely happy with the sale even if the coin does happen to be a red-brown. I would never buy the holder before the coin. I posted the coin initially to see what you all thought, including color designation.

 

Thanks for your advice and time, as with everyone else as well. I definitely appreciate the feedback.

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Mark T

Mark T

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MS 64 RB . We cannot determine if it would receive a CAC sticker unless we knew the grade. I will say if this coin is in a RD holder then I would doubt it would get a sticker.

 

That's exactly why I posted the coin here. It is in a red holder, but I expect that the coin is a true red-brown as all of you have indicated. I bought this at auction, and was prepared for the coin to only be a true red-brown and perhaps a point lower, but I haven't seen the coin in my hands yet to determine whether or not it is the lighting.

 

With regards to grading, for those who rated the coin MS64, what do you think keeps this coin from MS65? Is it the luster? I'll post a picture of the coin in its new NGC slab in a few days.

 

In response to Mark T, does CAC consider attributions/color designations as part of the coin's "grade"? I didn't think they considered that or I wouldn't have ever posted a question about CAC stickers. lol

 

It looks 65RB to me. Sometimes, however, images make BN copper appear to be RB. If that is the case here, a BN designation wouldn't surprise me.

 

Do you think it is at the lower end of the MS65 spectrum, or do you feel that the coin would be a solid fit in your opinion?

 

Thanks again for everyone who has posted a response; your advice and time has been greatly appreciated. If I am able to take better photographs when the coin is in my hands, I'll post them.

 

 

CAC takes into consideration the color determination of copper.

They are very strict when it comes to the RD and RB designation , especially RD . If CAC certifies the grade but does not certify the color you will not get a sticker.

Remember that it is difficult to grade from a photo. I have no problems with a MS 65 grade for this coin, from the picture I thought MS 64 was a safe bet

 

 

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Mark T

Mark T

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I hope you don’t mind if I post your coin :

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1147&Lot_No=7259

I see a lot of Red Indians on the no floor session go for well below wholesale . Usually this is because of the coins color designation.

It will not be that difficult for you to sell this for a profit on EBAY for people who only look at the grade on the slab .

 

 

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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It looks like a solid 65 to me, but I wouldn't have any interest in it if it is designated "RD".

Mark, I'm a bit surprised that you say that. Wouldn't you want to see the coin in-hand before determining your level of interest? I strongly believe that many "RB" coins look much nicer than their so-called "RD" counterparts.

 

Of course, the provided images make it difficult for me to make a commitment either way with regard to a color designation.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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So what is the grade?

 

NGC MS65 RD

 

I hope you don’t mind if I post your coin

 

I don't mind at all. I only posted the larger images of the coin because of space constraints, and because the close-ups are more revealing of the surfaces, luster, etc. As I said before, I still do not have the coin in hand. I'm hoping that I'm lucky and the coin will truly be full red, but I am not holding my breath. I factored all of this into my bid, and I'm relatively happy (provided that the photographs are realistic for surface characteristics, etc.).

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Oldtrader3

Oldtrader3

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I blew up the pics of the coin on Heritage's site. The coin is certainly very clean and spot free. There is no way that I would call this coin anything but RB, based on the pics. Also based on having looked at Heritage images of cents for that past many years. Their pictures of copper based coins have improved and I really like the coin but RD? Not likely.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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It looks like a solid 65 to me, but I wouldn't have any interest in it if it is designated "RD".

Mark, I'm a bit surprised that you say that. Wouldn't you want to see the coin in-hand before determining your level of interest? I strongly believe that many "RB" coins look much nicer than their so-called "RD" counterparts.

 

Of course, the provided images make it difficult for me to make a commitment either way with regard to a color designation.

While, apparently it can happen, I have yet to see a coin of this type designated RD, sell for RB money. If I could buy it on that basis, I'd consider it.

 

My point was that I wont pay RD money for a copper coin designated RD, when I think it is RB or BN.

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