BankNote1 Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I am an old coin collector that has started back collecting a few coins. My question is does the designation "Cameo" on an NGC holder add any extra value to a Proof PF64 Barber Dime? Several years ago the term "Cameo" wasn't used in coin grading!? Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Cameo designation should add quite a bit to the value of a proof barber. It is describing the mirrored fields in contrast to the frosted devices, much like modern proof coins. But in early proofs, they are much less likely to have the cameo effect. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I would think the cameo effect on old proofs would be hard to get since the materials used in the dies back then were inferior to todays standards. The first coins struck from these dies may have a cameo effect to them since the dies were still new and not worn. Coinholeio KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 BankNote1 , I must respectfully disagree with the previous replies you have received. We buy and sell a good number of proof type coins. Many of the Barber pieces are actually fairly common with "Cameo" contrast and can be bought at virtually no premium over non-cameo examples. "Ultra" or "deep" Cameo's are an entirely different matter but that wasn't the subject your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankNote1 Posted December 9, 2002 Author Share Posted December 9, 2002 Thanks Mark!!! I thought that might be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Monty, Glad to be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 mark feld in his answer is really extremely astute in his reply and he is not 95 99% but 100 percent correct!! cameo coinage pre 1915 is common not as common as lets say worn buff nickels but they are certainly available and like mark also says ultra cameo deep cameo well that is another matter and a REal DEEP CAMEO ULTRA COIN IS RARE now of course with every example there are exceptions and for example it depends on the date and series now the later date barber dimes 1913 1914 1915 are super rare to non exist ant in deep ultra cameo and any cameo coin is rare and also any coin that is like a deep cameo or a near miss deep cameo in a cameo holder is also monster rare in my opinion take for instance this coin a proof 66 cameo pcgs coin 1913 barber dime the service was real;l;y hard on this coin not calling it a deep cameo as it would have beeen the first and only and highest graded so they erred on the side of caution even the strickest would call this coin a near miss deep cameo !! this coin is a deep cameo plus on the reverse and a solid cameo on the obverse even though it is in a proof 66 cameo holder pcgs! and currently it is the finest for the date and grade and designation in A HOLDER POP ONE NONE HIGHER and to me is a solid deep cameo so here is oneof the rare ezceptions for a cameo to be super rare with really no or possibly very few to exist in deep cameo and this coin is a deep cameo abet in a cameo holder! that was a great post i am going to try to attatch a scan in an attatchment and of course the scan barely does justice to the coin sincerely michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 i have seen pcgs all over the place on deep cameo pre 1915 coins some of their graded deep cameo designations are not even deep cameo!! more like cameo yes yes yes and also then they grade this coin and it is a no brainer deep cameo in a cameo holder but the grading services do their best with waht they got and only look at a coin a few seconds and also the deep cameo are so rare they do not have much to go by for me i have been specialiazing in this for 30 years a crazy collector mee and though i might be a legend in my own mind it is fun and i have lots more time to look hours days at a coin then the grading services! also i am sure there are coins out there certified since the beginning when ngc pcgs started that are cameo in fact many!! and i am sure some deep/ultra cameo coins also!! i am sure not many but a few that should get cetrtified as such eventually!!......... not many but some deep cameos! and of course they are actually rarer than even the few that have been graded as there are unfortunately many mistakes out there near miss deep cameos one side to cameos both sides that are in deep cameo holders buy the coin not the holder!!! but as with many coins the services started grading like three dollar gold pieces they graded AS AU 58 THAT WERE 62 63 COINS IT TAKES TIME FOR THE services to hone their skills so to speak! they will get much better at designating the deep ultra cameo slabs in due course and there are lots of great solid deep ultra cameo coins graded! and also there are even a few monster stellar deep uiltra cameo coins that are deep ultra cameo plus both sides! those are the coins to buy!!!!!!! they areworth whatever you haveto pay for them and the owners will be amply rewarded in due course i think!! also ngc i must admit DOES DO A BETTER JUST WITH THE DESIGNATION PRE 1915 ULTRA CAMEO THAN PCGS DOES!! in fACT I HAVE SEEN YES AND HAVE PROOF OF ngc cameo coins pre 1915 going into deep cameo pcgs holders!! and not many but more than an isolated instance!! and there are lots of coins out there in ngc cameo holders that are like ultra cameo on one side and like ultra cameo 99.% on the other side in cameo holders that are no branier buy coins!!!! the key to this coin market is to speciALIZE SPECIALIZE SPECIalize!!!!! and there are cameo coins in both services holders that are solid cameos to just made it cameos but they are still cameo THESE COINS ARE THE COINS NOT TO BUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNLESS you get them at no premium to non cameo pre 1915 proof coinage and these are common for the most part!! but like everythnig else it is a caes by case coin by coin basis sincerely and respectfully michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 but like this current market in slabsd ngc pcgs and even moreso pcgs it is waht the holder says even if the coin is a crappy piece of and is also like many moderns worth lots less! out of the holder than in the holder but currently it is the holder that counts and one holder in particiular and that is okie the market speaks!!! but just remember this there is a day of recockening coming and if you currently buy the coin not the holder you will be okie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i mean the holder is great pcgs ngc!!!! as long as for example you got a stellar deep ultra cameo coin that has monster eye appeal and is correctly graded undergraded even better and the coin matches the holder well juat a bonus in an ngc pcgs holder an example personally for mee i love the ngc holder even better i mean i have seen a monster sesqui silver commem in an ngc holder me 65 and the coin is the best 65 i have ever seen a high end coin with a 66 look!!/eye appeal i mean to me this coin is better than 95% of the 65 pcgs coins let costs 2000 less than if in a pcgs holder!! i love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now you do not see this everyday but that is okie one day the market will wake up and place more emphasis on the coin not the holder then the owner of this 65 sesqui ngc coin as above is sitting pretty!! buy the coin not the holder! sincerely michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Michael, take a deep breath, hold for 10 seconds, slowly exhale, repeat 5 times, every 4 hours. Then, read a book (not about coins) and relax... Your eyelids will hopefully get verrryyyyy verrryyyy heavy and you will start to get sleeeeeepy...... When you awaken, you will be very calm, an excellent speller and will still love beautiful coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paigow_johnny Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 See my advice under the "I'm going crazy !!!!!!!" thread. Slabregistryitis is going around..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 both you gentlemen are absolutely right!! the more things change the more they stay the same....... like me............... sincerely michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankNote1 Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 I think my head hurts!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member: Seasoned Veteran DWLange Posted December 10, 2002 Member: Seasoned Veteran Share Posted December 10, 2002 I'm sorry, Michael. I wasn't listening. Could you please repeat that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I did a search on E bay only one proof 66 Barber dime 1914 not cameo. They must be hard to find in pf-70 cameo.You think? KINGKOIN KING OF KOINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVillageProwler Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Hey Arch, Can we change Michael's title to Stream of Consciousness??? Or, is it ``streamofconsciousness''??? EVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP_ Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I gotta admit, no matter how painful it is to read sometimes , Michael's posts are always worth reading! Thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 thanks gp!! i mean for me i like information and good information \ i mean it is not like it is tens or hundreds of pages like only 1000 words and small words at that for me i think some could handle it and maybe learn from it here and there but i guess everyone has their opinions sincerely michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVillageProwler Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Michael, However you choose to express yourself, I wish to say that your enthusiasm about coins is refreshing. Many people are very knowledgeable about numismatics, but seldom do they exude such passion. Your writing style reminds me of William Carlos Williams in terms of the fluidity of the words as well as the careful message being delivered. Regards, EVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Michael, All kidding aside (well, most of it, anyway:)), some of us love your posts. Count me as among the "us". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtR Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 When you awaken, you will be very calm, an excellent speller I have been reading Michael's Threads and Post since he first arrived on the PCGS Boards, and if he ever calmed down or became an excellent speller I wouldn't understand what he was talking about. All fun aside keep up the good work Michael. I, and I am sure many others appreciate your contributions to both the NGC, and PCGS Coin Boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 thanks mark feld !!! evp !!! and artr !!! i really apprecaite it! GP!!!! the others had some really rude comments on here for me yesterday and i did not apprecaite it but i guess such is life i meaN it is not polite and shows no class well i guess all i can say is i hope someone doesnot treat them like that but they are not gentlemen like you guys are sincerely and respectfully michael i mean if you have to disrespect other people that doesnot show any chaRACTOR class and other things i will not mention here for themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefperry Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Keep posting the way you are. You might get some kidding but I bet 99% of it is good natured. Count me in as one who likes your posts and couldn't care less about spelling and other stuf. Just be careful about counting me in as a gentleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankNote1 Posted December 11, 2002 Author Share Posted December 11, 2002 Michael; Thanks for the information! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 michael, I usually appreciate your comments, though sometimes I have a little trouble keeping up with them. I just hope you don't take it the wrong way when I chuckle at the more amusing of your musings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVillageProwler Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 I chuckle at the more amusing of your musings Is that amuse mousse, or amuse muse?!? (I know, I know, I always have food on my mind!) EVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 EVP said "Is that amuse mousse, or amuse muse?!? (I know, I know, I always have food on my mind!)" Perhaps you have mice or moose (plural), rather than food on your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVillageProwler Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 can't they be food too? evp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkFeld Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Sure they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtryka Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 As the proud (yet strange) owner of two pet rats, I am apalled at your discussion of any rodent as food! Besides, everyone knows the plural of mouse is meeses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
