Keep dipped proof?

[Scooter1685-migration]

I recently purchased an unslabbed 1900 barber quarter proof from e-bay (yes I know it's not always a good idea). The pictures made it look slightly toned, but on receiving and inspecting the coin I'm about 80% certain that it's been partially dipped. The toning is perfectly even on both sides (as in, it's toned in a straight line) as far as it's progressed, and fairly blue.

 

My question is this... I am positive that the proof is genuine and it's definitely a proof. Artificial toning notwithstanding, it's still a fairly rare and valuable coin. There's another artificially toned proof (completely dipped) on e-bay, slabbed, going for $300 more than I paid (same year). Should I keep the coin and slab it despite the toning and content myself with having a proof from that year, or should I get a refund and look for a proof that's not been dipped for about twice what I paid? I seek the advice of my peers.

[Coinsman63]

If you submit it, the possibility is high it will be labeled as Artificially Toned by the TPG, and could haven an affect on re-sale price.

[Scooter1685-migration]

I'm no photographer, but I'll see if I can get a half-decent picture. I'll also put up the picture from the seller if I can still find it...

[Scooter1685-migration]

This is the image that was presented by the seller. Unfortunately I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to bb code... perhaps I can lookup an old help site I used to use...

 

 

[Scooter1685-migration]

Yeah, so we'll just stick with the image presented and I'll provide additional information.

 

They shone very bright light on the coin to bleach it and cause the luster to show. The coin has a fair bit of natural tarnish, which I certainly don't mind. The slight blue that's present in the upper portion of the coin is darker and more obvious than it shows, asserting itself more on the reverse than the obverse. As I mentioned before, the toning is in a perfectly straight line and exactly the same on both obverse and reverse, with a bit more color on the reverse.

 

Really the coin is in excellent condition, and were it not for the toning I'd be incredibly excited to have it. I'm still excited enough to have it that I'm torn about whether to return it or not, despite the artificial toning... Which is why I posted here seeking advice.

 

I really must speak with you guys about how to take pictures of coins, . I'm a biology major, not a photographer. I'm doing pretty damn good to figure out which button takes the picture...

[Scooter1685-migration]

Oh look. I got the picture to work!

[Scooter1685-migration]

Now that I've gotten the picture to work, , I can respond.

 

I do realize that. I don't plan to resell my coins. I collect them because I enjoy them. However, it is my goal to collect only coins that are MS or PF and as close to perfect as I can manage. So far I've stuck to that policy like glue. The problem is that proofs are hard to come by, and harder to afford. I'm a college kid with a family of four, 13 pets, and only one income. I'm sure you can see how that might put a crimp on finances; afterall college kids aren't known for having vast reserves of cash.

 

If I do return the coin, it's likely that it'll be quite difficult to come across another that isn't dipped. If (or when) I do come across another, it's even less likely that I'll be able to afford it. I paid a little over $500 for this, and I had to suffer nearly endless complaints from my wife for even that much.

 

Regardless of the financial aspect, however, is the fact that I'm simply irritated by artificial toning. It seems an incredibly stupid thing to do to an otherwise beautiful coin. I fail to see why anyone would even attempt to tone any coin, much less a proof that's over a century old. I could go on and on in a nearly endless tirade about it (as I'm sure many of you could), but that's the crux of the matter. I love the coin. Really it's beautiful. I'm simply irritated by the toning that I think is artificial. It may be that some odd anomaly has occured and the toning is genuine. However, I doubt it very much and might be willing to bet on the outcome, .

[physics-fan3.14]

Scooter, welcome to the neighbourhood. I would probably return that coin. The thing is, once a coin is a problem coin, its always a problem coin. I would recommend saving an extra month or two, and buying a truly attractive, problem free example. It might take longer to get, but in the end it will definitely be worth it.

[Walkerfan]

If you have to think about it this much, you probably WON'T be happy with that coin. Believe me; I know from personal experience! I also agree that the TPG companies may not slab it or they may mark it as being artificially toned---that would be my major concern and that would REALLY HURT any resale value and that's what I would base MY decision on. Even though you plan on keeping your coins, I would NOT want a coin that is deemed a problem coin by a TPGC. If they were to slab it as problem free, then I would definitely say- go ahead and keep it but that probably WON"T happen based on what you've already said and what I've seen. I would return to seller and then get what you really want. You have to be patience. Another nice raw coin will show up eventually; probably sooner than you think.

[michael]

i would return to the seller for full refund

 

ASAP

 

and welcome to the boards

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I would return it and not waver in any way.

 

That seller is well known for getting too much money for coins whose flaws are masked by their images and which sell to buyers who do not know how to grade well. If you keep buying uncertified coins for hundreds of dollars and are not expert, you are guaranteed to get burned, and badly.

[WoodenJefferson]

I am not going to claim that this 110 year old proof has been dipped or artificially toned, but that certainly is an odd way for a coin of this era to naturally tone. For all I know, it may have, it's just hard to say looking at some pictures.

 

Once you convinced yourself that there might be something awry, it's game over and you should never go through your collecting career with doubts.

 

Return the coin, eat the shipping and look for one that spurns your desires.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Contrary to folks like TradeDollarNut, who think that all I do is rant and rave against TPGs , this is an area where I think you are well advised to purchase a certified proof. There's just no reason to spend $500, $600 or even $1000 on a coin from a series where there are so many examples that have been messed with. The extra cost of the certification ($30) is pretty small compared to the overall value, and the benefit is there. Plus, proof Barber coinage is one of the few areas where you can still cherrypick certified coins. You can probably find a coin with a straight grade that has at least some cameo contrast on one or both sides, and not have to pay a premium.

 

The way to cherrypick these is not raw and on eBay, however!

 

Edited to add: That particular seller is one that I advise all my coin friends to avoid. There has not been one single instance in my personal experience whereby a coin that they sold was worth the price paid for it.

[kryptonitecomics]

I would return it and not waver in any way.

 

That seller is well known for getting too much money for coins whose flaws are masked by their images and which sell to buyers who do not know how to grade well. If you keep buying uncertified coins for hundreds of dollars and are not expert, you are guaranteed to get burned, and badly.

 

 

bingo....well known seller of problem coins without disclosing problems....I would return it immediately

[Scooter1685-migration]

I certainly do appreciate the input from you guys. I'll be contacting them today to return the coin. I'm happy to pay for return shipping in order to get a refund, .

 

Mostly my collection consists of what I call the "indian coins;" the BLP quarter and half eagles, indian pennies, buffalo nickels, etc. The reason for the barber is my timeline series. I want to have NGC put half-century sets in special holders for me, for 1800, 1850, 1900, 1950, 2000, and hopefully 2050 (but who knows what the future holds, really). The dangerous part of that is that many of the coins I'll need for that aren't in my usual area of expertise, which makes grading them tricky and grading from photos impossible.

[Scooter1685-migration]

I do have a question though. There are only 2 coinshops anywhere near me. The better one is about a 2 hour drive and keeps somewhat odd hours, but I've never had a negative experience there. The other one is in the same city I live in, but the owner rarely has anything I'm interested in. Any advice on a good place where I might find the coins I'm looking for? There simply aren't slabbed proofs of these coins on ebay, nor raw ones that aren't altered in some way.

[FILTHYHOARD]

I do have a question though. There are only 2 coinshops anywhere near me. The better one is about a 2 hour drive and keeps somewhat odd hours, but I've never had a negative experience there. The other one is in the same city I live in, but the owner rarely has anything I'm interested in. Any advice on a good place where I might find the coins I'm looking for? There simply aren't slabbed proofs of these coins on ebay, nor raw ones that aren't altered in some way.

 

Have you tried Heritage Auctions or Teletrade?

[Mark T]

Great Southern Coin - Return that coin immediately !!! And please do not leave positve feedback . The problem with this sellers feedback is so many people will not leave a negative because they returned the coin . At the least you should leave a neutral with a comment about the cleaned coin. All the raw stuff they sell is over graded , many of their coins are “problem coins”. Look for a nice one that is already certified by NGC , PCGS or Anacs. You will have better luck with Heritage, Bowers or Teletrade . A nice PCGS PR 63 just sold earlier this year for $ 690 at a Heritage Auction. Mintage on this coin is low and this date does not come up for auction that often so maybe look for another date .

 

 

[TomB]

Not much to add other than what has been stated already. I would return the coin ASAP.

[Scooter1685-migration]

Thanks guys. Both coins have been returned (with confirmation and insurance of course). They will be arriving today or tomorrow. Once I have the refund I'll certainly have to look at those other places. I've actually never heard of them. I've only ever bought coins from coin shops, e-bay, and once from a pawn shop because the guy didn't know what he had, . Ooh, and from a bank once. Unless you want to count the state quarters thing.... I bought all those from the global monetary exchange or some such. The people haven't stopped sending me junk mail since...

 

Anyhow, I'll certainly take a look at those places you've mentioned. Thank you very much.

[Mark T]

What was the other coin you purchased ?

[Scooter1685-migration]

1900 indian penny proof. The penny looked like it was in much better condition and certainly hadn't been dipped, but I'd bet my favorite quarter eagle that it's been cleaned.

 

Anyhow, I signed up on the Heritage Auctions site and I'm in the process of creating a want list. It's going to take a while... I've only collected about 3% of what I want to collect overall. But the want list is going to have to wait. I need to get some of my math homework done... Joy of joys. I'm a biology major, math isn't my favorite subject.

 

Thanks again guys! Currently watching 3 proofs from 1900, slabbed by NGC, on Heritage Auctions. They'll be for my timeline collection if I get them. On e-bay I did learn that it's best not to bid until the last day of the auction though, . Keeps the price a little lower until the end, so often the closing cost is lower. Muahahahahahaaaa!

[Scooter1685-migration]

Well, if you're dying to know what I purchased with the funds that were returned to me, here it goes!

 

1900 Liberty "V" Nickel PR64 Cameo, slabbed by NGC

 

1900 Liberty "V" Nickel PR65 gold NT, slabbed by NGC

 

1913 Type 1 Buffalo nickel MS63 gold NT, slabbed by NGC

 

1937 Roanoke Commemorative 50C MS64, slabbed by NGC

 

2000 W Eagle G$5 PF69 Ultra Cameo, slabbed by NGC

 

1937 S Buffalo Nickel MS65 red/gold NT, slabbed by NGC

 

2000 P Eagle S$1 PF69 Ultra Cameo, slabbed by NGC

 

1900 O S$1 MS63, slabbed by NGC

 

1938 D Buffalo Nickel MS66, slabbed by NGC

 

All in all, I'd say I'm far happier with what I bought with my refund than I would have been with these altered proofs I had purchased. Yay me!

[Walkerfan]

You much a much WISER decision that was a much BETTER investment. CONGRATS!!

[Just Bob]

 

1900 Liberty "V" Nickel PR65 gold NT, slabbed by NGC