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Do I need to reholder this????????

23 posts in this topic

All this talk about I need to get my proof Buffalo in a different holder. does anyone think I could not get ALL the money for this coin that according to some is in the wrong holder.

It all about the coin, if you can grade and trust your gut. I know I can and do

 

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Jack,

 

It appears to be the real deal (NT) to me. I can't tell from the image whether that is a true 65 or not (e.g. scratches on face). Unfortunately, given the current market I've got to agree with the 2 previous posters. Your money for that coin is obviously based on the toning, and unless it's in a top tier TPG you will not get your full moneys worth out of it. Heck, even if it downgrades to a 64 at NGC/PCGS, given it's the color that people are paying for you should be able to sell it at a better price than in the ICG slab.

 

Oh, pretty coin BTW. :applause: Nice pickup.

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With all the AT-phobia going around these days, you'll need to get it into an NGC or PCGS slab to get the best price if you should decide to sell it.

 

 

I agree!

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A knowledgeable collector who is going to pay the premium that type of toning commands is not going to need NGC or PCGS to tell him the color is natural.

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Holder aside. IMO it's a weak MS 65. PCGS and NGC would give this beautfully toned Morgan MS64. Strike and field hits on the Obverse MS64. Reverse solid MS65.

 

Tough call, but I would look to crossover to maximize buyer value. This coin in a PCGS/NGC holder at MS64 with the beautiful natural toning could bring a solid price. If you get MS65 even better.

 

$ilverHawk

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If you are going to sell it , or want peace of mind, it's probably worth submitting to NGC or PCGS. I own several coins in ICG holders that, at one time, were highly regarded -- for right or wrong, ICG's graded coins are not respected in today's market.

 

If the coin can hold its own by merits, then there is no reason for you to hesitate submitting to NGC or PCGS..

 

That's my 2 cents worth.

 

 

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Thank you mark for seeing what I was trying to get across. A coin like this will bring all the money regardless of the holder

In this case, I agree. That is a devastatingly nice Morgan dollar, in my opinion, and I couldn't care less if the holder stated "Jim's Hotdogs and Part-Time Coin Grading Service".

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Many good points made on both sides of this issue however, some thought must be given to where the OP will sell this beauty. If its via ebay he will short himself but if its in a face to face sale the beauty of the coin will speak for itself. IMHO

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It all about the coin, if you can grade and trust your gut. I know I can and do

Very true. The problem is that when you go to sell you have to find someone else who can grade and can trust their gut. Most don't have the nerve to trust their gut On the other hand when you do sell it yo know it is going to someone who understands and appreciates it.

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That coin will not bring the same money in that holder vs a PCGS or NGC holder in any venue that I am aware of hm

 

That doesn't mean the OP couldn't readily sell it to knowledgable collectors for a nice chunk of change but the facts are that most people buy the coin and the plastic together.

 

If you think I am incorrect then think about it this way.....two identical coins with that color come up on say heritage. One in a PCGS holder and one in an ICG....do you really think they will sell for the same price? Heck not even an NGC toner will bring the same price as a pcgs one all of the time unless it has a star......it's not the way collecting should be but I assure you...in a case like the beautiful coin posted it is reality. (thumbs u

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HI,

Check out the thread I just started on my one example of cracking a specimen from an ICG and getting it into an NGC holder. I bet your coin will go well with NGC or PCGS by the photos, but you need to know your coin and be confident of your evaluation BEFORE you crack it out and send it in.

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Are you selling the coin? If not, you don't need to reholder it. If you are selling it, do you need to move it quickly into a market consisting largely of people relying on TPG opinions for everything, or are you setting the price and waiting for a buyer. If the latter, then you don't need to reholder it. Whether you want to or not is another question.

 

I personally think that the 65 was a toning-related gift. It has a weak strike, even for 83-O, and marks and scratches on the face I wouldn't want on a 65. I think both PCGS and NGC would call it 64, and you'd probably get superlative suffix symbols as well. I don't really think such a downgrade would hut the coin, however. Whether the plastic says 64 or 65, the bottom line is that if you grade the coin $500, buyers will spend more time evaluating the premium they feel the toning brings more than they will splitting hairs with technical differences between grades (or half-grades).

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Are you selling the coin? If not, you don't need to reholder it. If you are selling it, do you need to move it quickly into a market consisting largely of people relying on TPG opinions for everything, or are you setting the price and waiting for a buyer. If the latter, then you don't need to reholder it. Whether you want to or not is another question.

 

I personally think that the 65 was a toning-related gift. It has a weak strike, even for 83-O, and marks and scratches on the face I wouldn't want on a 65. I think both PCGS and NGC would call it 64, and you'd probably get superlative suffix symbols as well. I don't really think such a downgrade would hut the coin, however. Whether the plastic says 64 or 65, the bottom line is that if you grade the coin $500, buyers will spend more time evaluating the premium they feel the toning brings more than they will splitting hairs with technical differences between grades (or half-grades).

If the coin's grade received a bump for color - and I can't tell for certain from the images - I believe that the same thing happens fairly frequently with PCGS and NGC too.
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That coin will not bring the same money in that holder vs a PCGS or NGC holder in any venue that I am aware of hm

 

That doesn't mean the OP couldn't readily sell it to knowledgable collectors for a nice chunk of change but the facts are that most people buy the coin and the plastic together.

 

If you think I am incorrect then think about it this way.....two identical coins with that color come up on say heritage. One in a PCGS holder and one in an ICG....do you really think they will sell for the same price? Heck not even an NGC toner will bring the same price as a pcgs one all of the time unless it has a star......it's not the way collecting should be but I assure you...in a case like the beautiful coin posted it is reality. (thumbs u

Shane, I think that is correct, in many, if not most cases. But, that doesn't mean that a knowledgeable seller can't get full price from a knowledgeable buyer for a non PCGS or NGC coin. It just means that the seller has fewer potential buyers at full value.

 

 

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That coin will not bring the same money in that holder vs a PCGS or NGC holder in any venue that I am aware of hm

 

That doesn't mean the OP couldn't readily sell it to knowledgable collectors for a nice chunk of change but the facts are that most people buy the coin and the plastic together.

 

If you think I am incorrect then think about it this way.....two identical coins with that color come up on say heritage. One in a PCGS holder and one in an ICG....do you really think they will sell for the same price? Heck not even an NGC toner will bring the same price as a pcgs one all of the time unless it has a star......it's not the way collecting should be but I assure you...in a case like the beautiful coin posted it is reality. (thumbs u

Shane, I think that is correct, in many, if not most cases. But, that doesn't mean that a knowledgeable seller can't get full price from a knowledgeable buyer for a non PCGS or NGC coin. It just means that the seller has fewer potential buyers at full value.

 

 

 

and I in turn agree with you...I would have no problem buying that coin in that holder.....but since I would want it in a different holder...even I might discount the value a slight bit in my mind just becuase I would factor in the cost of submission to PCGS/NGC.....I agree the grade for me is irrelevant...MS64*/MS65...it's probably going to sell to someone in the know for the same price.

 

If your not playing the registry game...I would leave it in that holder unless I ever decided to sell it.

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But, that doesn't mean that a knowledgeable seller can't get full price from a knowledgeable buyer for a non PCGS or NGC coin. It just means that the seller has fewer potential buyers at full value.

That is a terrific, excellent point that Mark brings up, but it is too often missed by collectors.

 

I agree that in reality, the "brand" of slab doesn't actually reduce or increase the value of a coin, but it does have an effect on the potential audience.

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Obverse: MS-64

Reverse: MS-65

NET: MS-64

 

I am of the opinion that an inverse can carry a weaker reverse to a higher grade, but not vice versa.

 

I agree with this, too. I am also in the general consensus and I believe that if it was in an NGC holder it would MS 64 star. I would cross it over just to protect my investment and to increase the pool of potential buyers. For an NT freak; they may pay as much if not more for an ms 64* as opposed to a straight up 65.

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