Random Thoughts Regarding My Life as a Coin Collector

[mike169]

Hi all,

 

Random thoughts regarding my life as a coin collector. Note that I don't use the word numismatist, as I only reserve that term for the connoisseurs of the hobby.

 

1. I collect about 65% for the purpose of collecting, and 35% for the purpose of investing. By investing, I don't necessarily mean making a profit, but I collect coins because I would hope that they would provide at least a decent rate of return should I tire of them. If it weren't for this "decent rate of return," I would probably spend the comparable amount of money elsewhere, like wine, women and song.

 

2. Grading. "I am the best grader in the world." Not really, but this is the attitude that many collectors have. They send in a coin to a TPG such as NGC, it comes back a 62, and they cry foul and say it's undergraded because they believe it's a 63. They resubmit, it comes back a 64, and they're happy because it graded better than they thought. In most cases, it's the same coin, unless "modifications" have been made.

 

3. Which brings me to the next point. If we are so good at grading, why can't we sell the coins for the grade we believe that they are. I believe that very few people can grade properly. Even fewer can sell their coins without the benefit of a TPG ... Would you buy a raw 1928-S "MS-65" Peace Dollar from me for $20,000? Probably not. Would you buy a certified NGC 1928-S MS65 Peace Dollar from me for the same price? Perhaps. Disclaimer: I do not have a 1928-S Peace Dollar.

 

Just some thoughts for the day.

 

 

[mtnstyne]

1. Same as me...I hope that my kids will enjoy them sometime and maybe give us something to do together when other things fade.

 

2. I can grade Morgans, but that is it...and just straight grades..no pluses or stars. But I can give a pretty good grade to a Morgan.

 

3. TPGs changed everything in every collecting hobby. One day I had a couple thousand dollars worth of Nolan Ryan rookie cards...then all the sudden grading companies came along and my Nolan Ryan rookies are worth about 1/10th because they haven't passed through the hallowed doors and paid the fees to "professionals".

 

I still prefer to buy raw, I think the grading companies are more for those looking to turn an profit or make an investment. In my opinion it takes away from the hunt completely.

 

It reminds me of a website that started about 10 years or more ago for sports cards. It was actually kind of interesting...it traded sportscards like stocks. It was really quite odd, but it allowed for trading of cards easier than just selling and buying.

[BillJones]

With regard to your third point about grading, I would agree with you that many collectors cannot grade coins well. I’m truly astounded sometimes when I see the guesses that some people up when a collector posts pictures and asks for a grade.

 

There are two reasons for this. Some people can’t develop an eye for grading coins. There is a talent that some people and some people don’t. The second reason is that some people just have not done their homework. They have not bought the ANA Grading Guide, and if they have bought it, they have not spent enough time studying it. Beyond that one must look at a lot coins in person to become a competent grader.

 

You second point about buying raw MS-65 graded coins and paying the full price for them misses the point. The trouble with buying MS-65 graded coins raw is that there is a lot of financial risk involved with doing that. Too many collectors put the grading services up on a pedestal and say, “The grading services ALWAYS get it right,” when clearly that is not the case. If the services were getting it right all the time, there would be no market for CAC. If the services got it right all the time, no crack out artist would be able to earn a living. There is no wall of total competence between TPG grading professionals and the collector community. There are many dealers and collectors who are just as competent at grading coins or more so that some of the people who grade for the TPGs.

 

The point is the services can mess up, and there are many instances in which the same coin got different grades over successive submissions. Even within the third party grading market difference services command different market prices. Generally high grade PCGS graded coins bring more than NGC (with less than perfect justification). NGC coins are worth more than ANACS and ICG. And ANACS and ICG graded pieces are more highly regarded than all the fly by night outfits whose main purpose in life is to supply coin scammers who are out to sell “certified” coins to the less informed public.

 

Yes, it takes expertise to grade coins, but all of the expertise is not in the hands of TPGs.

 

[HiHoAudio]

Some people can’t develop an eye for grading coins. There is a talent that some people and some people don’t...

 

Like having a good ear for music. A professional coin grader is as much an artist as a musician.

[WoodenJefferson]

There was a time prior to the mid-1980's where some sellers (I purposely left out the word dealers) would proclaim that a shiny coin you were looking at was considered Gem-BU but that they would sell you the coin at BU pricing...guess what? It was BU the whole time and was shy of the higher tier of GEM by a whole lot and always would have been. It was part of the nature of the game, some took extreme advantage of novice buyers, while others only fudged a little.

 

That's just the way it was before the grading services started to provide accurate a reliable authentication service along with the Sheldon Numerical Scale grading standards. This alone put the buyer on an even playing field with someone who handled coins on a daily basis and with a few resources at hand, the buyer could make better coin purchasing decisions.

 

The Hobby of Kings has come a long way in 25 years, who knows what the future will reveal.

 

 

 

 

[michael]

impossible most all of the times to even guess and come close to photos of coins posted anywhere for grading opinions

 

i dont think yet?/ that ngc or pcgs has people send in photos to get the grades of their coins NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE PHOTOS ARE

 

then after the coins are graded by photos you br9ng the coin to shows THAT PCGS/NGC ARE SET UP AT to verify that is is the same coin in the phOTO and then they encapsulate the coin in their holder with the photograde

 

 

2--grading is an extremely subjective opinion that changes daily depending on the market, market grading, acceptance of changing grading standards, more knowledge gained in the market that helps with grading coins

 

and even the finest best graders in the biz will differ on many coins sent in every year or so AS AGAIN IT IS A SUBJECTIVE ART

 

kind of like a floating scale as a really nice gem coin could be graded ms 65

5 out of ten times twice 66, once 64 and once bodybagged and once 64+ and these would be all legit opinion grades depending on who looks at the coin in the gradibng room, westher they are making any coins that day, the current market at the time of grading, the current market acceptable practises the service is using based on their continuing learning curse and also giving the benefit of the doubt or not to liner coins and also just plain bad or good days of grading and of course mistakes that they miss rarely but it happens and again awarding plus grades

 

 

 

 

[mtnstyne]

That's just the way it was before the grading services started to provide accurate a reliable authentication service along with the Sheldon Numerical Scale grading standards. This alone put the buyer on an even playing field with someone who handled coins on a daily basis and with a few resources at hand, the buyer could make better coin purchasing decisions.

 

I agree it has made it easier to purchas over the internet or sight unseen. I do buy graded coins when they present a value that I can turn over easily for a profit, but to work on a collection I prefer to find a raw coin. Just to note I haven't sold any coins for a long time and only raw ones when I finally decided what collection to work on.

 

Grading as stated above is very subjective and changes based on the grader. Look at Morgan's noted for weak strikes...a morgan with a weak strike can get the same grade from a TPG as one with a great strike but one is obviously far superior. I know they are all supposed to be graded against one standard, but from what I have seen there are different standards for different years/mint marks.

 

In my opinion (and yes just my opinion) grading companies have made it easy for someone who doesn't know anything about coins what-so-ever to become the worlds best "collectors" simply by opening up the checkbooks. A kid with money like an internet startup could in all likelyhood go out and buy sets to win most of the registry sets without knowing anything about the coins he owns, much like winning a video game...high score wins right?