Why do some coins that are not rare go up in value while other coins that are ..

[barberlover-migration]

Why do some coins that are not rare go up in value while other coins that are much harder to find go nowhere ?

 

Wouldn't it have been nice to load up on 09 SVDB pennies in full red a few years ago ? how about circ 93 S dollars ? These coins while considered to be key dates are not rare or really even hard to find yet they just keep going up in value. On the other hand many scarce issues go begging like semi key barber quarters & halves, many different issues get little attention at all like half dimes & three cent nickle pieces.

 

Can what I would call "supply -vs- demand" rarities just keep going up in value like an unending peramid scheme while many scarcer coins in areas like seated & barber series stay ignored ?

 

Your opionions please.

 

Les

[jtryka]

I think you hit it, it's all about supply and demand. So many people collect lincoln cents, that even though the 09-S VDB isn't rare, the demand still outstrips available supply. The same is true with Morgan dollars.

 

With these other series, there may be far rarer issues, but how many people are trying to complete a date set of half dimes? Or even Barber coins? These series are just not like the ever popular series that everyone either starts or progresses to. Perhaps in a hundred years, these series will be like older ones, when people are collecting new coins with other images.

 

In any case, it's all about supply and demand. That's why hopelessly common mondern coins have insane prices for "grade rarity." It really has nothing to do with rarity, just with supply and demand.

[chinook]

Les,

 

I liken this tho the stock market. There are a lot of stocks that are complete POS that have gone up tremendously over the past year. The only reason for this is increased demand. People always like to be on a winner and they want instant gratification. Stocks and coins trend, that is they will continue in the same direction until something fundamental changes the demand for them.

 

In 1999 everybody wanted Internet stocks, most were garbage, as 90% are no longer in business, but there was huge demand for them because they kept going up, hence creating more demand. At the same time, many high quality companies such as Merck and Johnson & Johnson did not move (underperformed) because the demand was elsewhere. As the Internets failed, demand for MRK and JNJ increased and so did their stock prices. In fact JNJ nearly doubled as the Nasdaq lost 3/4 of its value. These stocks are known as value stocks because of strong earnings and established businesses. They are and probably always will be good buys.

 

There are value coins as well---high grade bust 1/2 dimes and dimes, 3 cent silver and your beloved barbers, among others. Just as in the stock market these coins will perform very well but usually will not have the same meteoric price gains unless something happens that will change (create) more demand.

 

The bottom line, just as in stock investing, is to buy high quality with relative rarity, and over time you will be very successful.

[Trime-migration]

Interesting post but rhetorical question.

Answered well never the less!

[BillJones]

Here are few reasons why I think that some more common coins like the Lincoln cents and the Morgan silver dollars go up in price while other scarcer pieces languish. As a case in point I’ll compare Morgan Dollars and Lincoln cents to the Barber series in general.

 

First, a set must be attractive to collect. Morgan Dollars are big, heavy, substantial coins. Lincoln cents are situated at the end of a very popular series, the U.S. cents. U.S. collectors have been interested in cents since the just before the Civil War.

 

Second, a set needs to have a number of inexpensive coins from which a collector can build an attractive partial set with “short dollars.” There are many Morgan Dollars that are inexpensive in Mint State condition. Ditto for the Lincoln cent, which has many, many date and mint mark combinations that are quite inexpensive in Mint State or the higher circulated grades.

 

In contrast the Barber sets generally come in two grades, Good or Mint State. There is a real shortage Barber coins in prime collector grades like Fine, VF and EF. The reason for this is that the Barber coins go killed during the Great Depression. People could not afford to set them aside, so what is left in Mint States coins that collectors saved and coins in Good or AG that did not end up going to the mint’s obsolete coin melting pot. What few high circ grade Barbers that are offered are often overgraded and overpriced. When a collector looks at what he has to pay for attractive coins and how many them he needs, he settles for a type coin in the Barber series instead.

 

Third, when I was young collector back in the ‘60s, I looked at the Barber dimes, quarters and half dollars and got “mint mark fatigue.” There were SO MANY coins to get for a set. In contrast the Indian cents only had two mint marked coins, and they came at the end of the series. Furthermore an Indian cent set covered a really wonderful stretch of history. The series started before the Civil War, proceeded though the war and Reconstruction and ended in the 1900’s. It was just so much more interesting than the Barber coins, which picked up with 1892 and proceeded to roughly the same time as the Indian cents.

 

These are just a few of my thoughts on why the Barber coins don't get more attention from collectors.

 

[TomB]

You've had some terrific responses so far and I would like to expand upon at least one of them.

 

The point being that there are Barber coins only available in G or MS. While this is a slight amount of hyperbole, it can really be looked at as a great reason for quieting the series. Most Barber halves are AG/G coins, with problems, and aren't very attractive. The enormous gap between this kind of coin and the high end AU/MS pieces means that many folks are priced out of the series. Worse, it deters people from even looking at these coins. They appear to be a wasteland of effort. How could one possibly put together a nice set of these coins when they practically don't exist in "collector" grades?

 

This issue becomes less onerous with the Barber quarters and dimes, but they have their own problems. The quarters have the "big three" that will set most people back quite a bit if they want particularly attractive coins and the dimes are small coins, with a reverse too similar to the Seated Liberty series and also suffer from the immediate release of Mercury dimes that they are compared to.

 

Are you looking for MS66FH SLQs? You can find them. MS68FB Mercs? They can be had. Original VF/EF Barber coins, especially halves? Good luck!

 

One last note; yes, I own the coin in the attachment and no, it is not for sale.

[sinin1-migration]

what are your definitions of rare?

 

 

there is more demand for a 1856 flyer or a 1877 indian or a 1955 double die or a 1932-D or S quarter or a 1909-S VDB

 

 

partly because the people wanting these to complete their sets

 

 

not many people collect Barbers or Seated Libertys by issue - mainly type set collectors

 

so depends on your perspective -> good for buying and bad for selling

 

 

although MS65+ Barber Halves are extremely rare, it is extremely rare to find anyone who wants one (for 4K+)

[cladking]

 

In any case, it's all about supply and demand. That's why hopelessly common mondern coins have insane prices for "grade rarity." It really has nothing to do with rarity, just with supply and demand.

 

While the multiple on many grade rare moderns may be seen as "insane" by some it should be noted that the absolute premium is generally far lower than the premium for classics, and that the multiple on old coins will often exceed the multiples for moderns. It should also be noted that the price of rare moderns is generally much lower than equally rare classics.

[barberlover-migration]

To Bill & others commenting about the Barber series.

 

I never meant to imply that I thought only Barbers had been over looked, thats why I also brought up half dimes and three cent nickle pieces. Also many seated coins have been over looked to.

 

I think supply -vs demand rarities are not for the most part rare coins, just hot coins in demand.

 

Why oh why did I ever give up my Lincoln collection!!!!

 

Les

 

 

[BillJones]

I picked up on the Barbers because I did not want my post to run on forever.

 

Most date collectors like see long runs of coins with few gaps in the middle. The trouble with the Silver Three Cent piece is that it runs from 1851 to 1873, which is a fairly short period. In addition to that ALL of the coins from 1863 to ’73 are for practical purposes only collectable in Proof and they are not easy to find in that form.

 

Half Cents suffer from a lot of date gaps in their period from 1793 to 1857. And with those gaps the few coins that are available are very rare, very hard to find, very expensive and plagued by more than few electros and copies that scare some collectors away.

 

I’ve written that the I’ve found the Nickel Three Cent piece to be the most boring 19th century coin, and others have posted comments that agreed with me. I’ll also tell you from experience as a dealer that building a set of these in Proof is not that hard if you have the money. Building a Mint State set, however, is a whole new ballgame. Some of these coins are very scarce in Mint State, and you don’t find that out until you start looking for them.

 

Half Dimes mostly suffer from their small size I think. For a lot of collectors, “bigger is better,” and its hard to change that attitude.

 

[ms66quarters]

Why do some coins that are not rare go up in value while other coins that are much harder to find go nowhere ?

 

Les,

 

I feel in this statement, you kind of answered your own question.

It's similar to the adage "out of sight out of mind" if you can't find it, there is no price to put on it!

 

To me, this is a real good recipe to find bargain's....if you have the patience.

As far as the Barber serie's,especialy the halve's,and even all the Barber serie's for that matter,in my experience, this is not the case at all.

If you can find the right coin's, in vf/xf, the price's have seen alot of pressure.Some of the coin's are not there,but when they are (if original) it seem's the sky's the limit.

 

On ebay, Iv'e noticed some new blood as far as ebay handle's bidding on certain coin's.As you are probably well aware of,this has put not only pressure on price's, but also,more importantly availability.

 

But on the other hand, some of the coin house's seem to be fairly reasonably on price...when you can find them.

 

So in that instance, it is a matter of supply and demand.

 

Hop all this make's sense.

 

Rob

[Oldtrader3]

Bill: You certainly have a point regarding three cent silvers. It is nearly impossible to find later date, mint state, Type III's in nice MS grades. Plus, they are under the radar for most collectors. Many have never even seen one.

[Bruceswar]

I remember that I pass on a 3 cent silver piece that was just dripping with luster.. I think the date was 1875... It was a beautiful coin. Should not have passed on it...