You may find it cool....or you may think me nuts but...

[kryptonitecomics]

As a Morgan dollar collector I just had to pick this up when I say it on Ebay last week

 

Since I can't afford to own an original mint sealed bag....nor could a probably find one even if I had the money...buying an original US Mint tag from a New Orleans Mint bag of Morgan Silver dollars with the lead seal seemed like a pretty cool addition to my collection

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Purcell sounds familiar...super cool btw

[MarkFeld]

Sorry, but it looks...

 

 

 

 

AT to me

 

 

 

[ldhair]

Really cool.

[TomB]

That's way cool. Do you know what the handwritten note is about?

[SD4000-migration]

Very cool

[robec1347]

Very cool Shane!!

[kryptonitecomics]

That's way cool. Do you know what the handwritten note is about?

 

I don't have a clue and I don't know if the name written on it is even traceable since it could be anyone and not necessarily a mint employee

[WoodenJefferson]

That's way cool. Do you know what the handwritten note is about?

 

I don't have a clue and I don't know if the name written on it is even traceable since it could be anyone and not necessarily a mint employee

 

RWB might be able to shed some light on the name.

[PerryHall]

Definately cool. That's something most dealers and collectors have never seen before.

[PerryHall]

That's way cool. Do you know what the handwritten note is about?

 

I don't have a clue and I don't know if the name written on it is even traceable since it could be anyone and not necessarily a mint employee

 

RWB might be able to shed some light on the name.

 

I had the same thought. Knowing when Purcell served at the mint can narrow down the time frame when this tag was used.

[Schatzy]

Cool!!

[kryptonitecomics]

I already tried to due a search for Purcell related to the us mint in phili, the New Orleans mint and I also tried to find a list of assistant treasurers for the US mint and I couldn't find anything that tied it all together. I also can't figure out what the $850.30 stands for unless that was the value of the silver in the bag at the time??? I assume back then that face value was worth around the melt value of the coins....but that's purely speculation on my part.

 

I pulled a chart of historical silver prices per ounce and in 1904 it was rougly .61 cents and ounce so that match wouldn't work out if it was from that year. An original bag of Morgan silver dollars would have contained 723.4 ounces of silver so if the $850.30 refered to the silver value in the bag that would mean that the price of silver was $1.18 an ounce at the time this notation on the tag was made. Again referring to the chart I found on kitco, that would place the date around 1879 when silver was roughly $1.14 an oz. I could be way off base but it is fun to speculate

 

[johnny9434]

coool item

[rrantique]

Happy Birthday Johnny

[cpm9ball]

I already tried to due a search for Purcell related to the us mint in phili, the New Orleans mint and I also tried to find a list of assistant treasurers for the US mint and I couldn't find anything that tied it all together. I also can't figure out what the $850.30 stands for unless that was the value of the silver in the bag at the time??? I assume back then that face value was worth around the melt value of the coins....but that's purely speculation on my part.

 

I pulled a chart of historical silver prices per ounce and in 1904 it was rougly .61 cents and ounce so that match wouldn't work out if it was from that year. An original bag of Morgan silver dollars would have contained 723.4 ounces of silver so if the $850.30 refered to the silver value in the bag that would mean that the price of silver was $1.18 an ounce at the time this notation on the tag was made. Again referring to the chart I found on kitco, that would place the date around 1879 when silver was roughly $1.14 an oz. I could be way off base but it is fun to speculate

 

 

Shane,

 

The bag tag was probably from 1878.

 

Morgans contained .77344oz of silver. A $1K bag would have 773.44oz of silver. Assuming that the $850.30 was the value of the silver, if you divide that by 773.44, you would get $1.0993742 as the price of silver. Rounded to the nearest cent, the price would be $1.10 which was the price of silver in 1878.

 

Cool find!

 

Chris

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok just so you don't think I am a math flunky.....I didn't do that math I just did a search for how much silver in a mint bag and this site told me 723.4 so it's their fault if the math is off

 

 

Silver Oz in Mint Bag

 

 

Also based on the average prices listed on the charts it really could be from 1878 to 1884 since the avergae stated would have fluctuated up and down within the year so it could have been at $1.10 an oz during any of those years peaks and valleys. For me though it looks pretty clear that the $850.30 does refer to the value of the silver at the time the coins were bagged as the dollar amount lines up perfectly with the correct time frame of when mass quantities of New Orleans Morgans were being minted. (thumbs u

[cpm9ball]

Ok just so you don't think I am a math flunky.....I didn't do that math I just did a search for how much silver in a mint bag and this site told me 723.4 so it's their fault if the math is off

 

 

Silver Oz in Mint Bag

 

 

Also based on the average prices listed on the charts it really could be from 1878 to 1884 since the avergae stated would have fluctuated up and down within the year so it could have been at $1.10 an oz during any of those years peaks and valleys. For me though it looks pretty clear that the $850.30 does refer to the value of the silver at the time the coins were bagged as the dollar amount lines up perfectly with the correct time frame of when mass quantities of New Orleans Morgans were being minted. (thumbs u

 

The site where you got the 723.4 is merely doubling the silver content of half dollars (.36169) which is a sneaky way of saving 50c per ounce when they buy silver dollars at melt.

 

I wasn't faulting your math skills. It's just that I have a thing about remembering numbers for things that interest me.

 

I'm still betting that the tag was from 1878. Keep in mind that they didn't have instant access to price quotes and fluctuations in the market like we do today.

 

Chris

[kryptonitecomics]

Could be from late in 1878 but it's more likely from early 1879 since there were no New Orleans minted coins in 1878....at least technically even though the mint could have started the minting process for the 1879-O's in late 1878

[cpm9ball]

Could be from late in 1878 but it's more likely from early 1879 since there were no New Orleans minted coins in 1878....at least technically even though the mint could have started the minting process for the 1879-O's in late 1878

 

How long do you think it took to ship the silver from Philly to NO? Did they use FedEx?

 

Chris

[SD4000-migration]

The pen writing looks like something you might see from that time period.i think thats great research.

[johnny9434]

thank you antiuque. the big 50 this year ( depending which day you ask me )

[okbustchaser]

My great, great uncle James Purcell ran a freighting service out of New Orleans in the 1880s and 90s. I wonder if perhaps that is his signature accepting the amount prior to shipping. I'll have to check the family Bible (and other letters) tonight and see if I can find a matching signature. I doubt that it is, but how cool if it were!

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT...

WARNING: If so, I may have to try to talk you out of it.

[WoodenJefferson]

My great, great uncle James Purcell ran a freighting service out of New Orleans in the 1880s and 90s. I wonder if perhaps that is his signature accepting the amount prior to shipping. I'll have to check the family Bible (and other letters) tonight and see if I can find a matching signature. I doubt that it is, but how cool if it were!

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT...

WARNING: If so, I may have to try to talk you out of it.

 

New Orleans Directory from 1890's

 

If you toggle just the date in the url, you come up with more examples.

[RWB]

Some off-hand thoughts:

 

The tag is from the New Orleans Sub Treasury to the Philadelphia Mint. The New Orleans Mint was not involved in this transaction.

 

“Standards” was used in the Treasury to refer to “Standard Silver Dollars.” The tag was intended for bags of $1,000, however, it could also have been used for a smaller quantity such as “369.” There would be no reference to quantity of silver or weight. If the coins were damaged or badly worn, the tag would be labeled “Uncurrent” or something similar depending on the era.

 

A spot check of employee registers from 1872, 1878, 1879 and 1885, do not list any New Orleans Mint or New Orleans Sub Treasury employees named “Purcell.” Same for Philadelphia Mint.

 

A shipping agent in New Orleans might have signed the tag as evidence of acceptance.

 

[Added: the tag has the number – “850.30” – there is no “$” sign so do not assume it refers to money. It might be total weight of a shipment or something we no longer deal with in the 21st century. All the manuscript appears to be from the same pen nib and written by the same person, but there’s not a lot of commonality to match. As for dating, the printed and stamped text style is more like 1890s to 1910s; many earlier tags and imprints use wider, boxy letters with ornate serifs.]

[kryptonitecomics]

Well based on the seller seeing the bag of 1,000 morgans being opened we can conclude is was a normal 1,000 coin bag unless he is making up the story....no way to know for sure.

 

As for the name...I know it could absolutely be anyone and they may have zero affiliation to any of the mints etc.....just speculating on that one but the 850.30 actually seem very probable to me to be a value of silver even without the $ included....it certainly would match up with the time period and the value of silver in a 1,000 bag so again there is no way to know for sure but to discount that right off the bat would be a mistake. I wasn't assuming it was the value....just speculating that it could be and I wouldn't assume or presume to know what all of the writing directly relates too potentially 100+ years later (thumbs u

[RWB]

The treasury's value of a bag of 1,000 standard silver dollars was $1,000. Once struck, coins were always accounted for at face value unless mutilated or withdrawn.

 

If the seller saw the seal removed, then he likely has some idea of the coins in the bag. Coming from a Sub Treasury, and having been resealed there, the bag likely had mixed dollars in it.

 

It’s still a really neat piece of numismatic history!

 

[CaptHenway]

I, for one, tend to skeptical of sellers' stories on eBay.

 

There was no reason to make up a story about the tag, but some people do it out of force of habit.

 

MOO

 

TD