Ebay Buyers Broke, Out of Money

[Houston Investor]

Watch out you don't list items too low!

 

Talking to some guys in the coin club the concensus of opinion is a seller better be careful and not list the auction item too low as Ebay Buyers are broke and out of money. Some of the guys in the club say many have flaked out on payment, etc. not to mention low-ball bids.

 

You can't sell something to someone who does not have any money.

 

Your thoughts? I don't know if they are broke, but coins come last compared to a lot of other things.

 

 

[gmarguli]

I've sold around a quarter million worth of coins on eBay so far this year and found prices to be fine.

 

Buyers are taking a little longer to pay, but that started last year. More deadbeat bidders, but that started immediately after the feedback changes.

[DC Dawg]

There have been some deadbeat sellers. With the change in PayPal rules requiring a hold on the funds for new sellers or others with bad ratings, these sellers have been shaking down some people to either leave positive feedback early or wait for the funds to clear (21 days). My father bought something that the insufficiently_thoughtful_person is holding because he as a 9 rating and doesn't want to pay for the shipping without the funds cleared--and it's too early to file a dispute with eBay. In the mean time, the schmuck won't answer notes from my father--the last one being to pay the shipping separately since it is under $100, it won't be held. There has been no answer.

 

This is the first time this happened to my father but not to me. But this is the first time I've heard about this after PayPal's rules to hold funds for those with lower ratings or new to PayPal/eBay. I used to be a fan of eBay, now I am just growing weary. I wish there was a viable alternative.

 

Scott

 

[SD4000-migration]

I had the same issue,about a month a go,Seller emailed me saying the funds will clear in 21 days,then he will ship.I told him,being new,he needs to call paypal directly,confirm the fact that the only way he can get his money quicker is to ship the item with delivery confirmation,and as soon as I get it Ill leave feedback,and he will get his money as quick as I get the item.

No kidding,the guy called paypal,confirmed what I told him,he shipped it,I got it 2 days later.I left feedback and he got his money instantly as I left feedback.He was happy,I was happy,hope you can convince him to call paypal & confirm it.

[World Colonial]

I do not know what you are selling but I suspect it is at least partly related to that. I have listed little this year on eBay, opting instead for private sales. I've had no trouble getting the prices I wanted though I cannot state whether this is "market value" or not, since there are zero public sales to my knowledge for the exactly coins I have sold.

[Houston Investor]

People I have spoken with are saying they are realizing significantly below bid or what they would think the item may bring. In addition, their frustration has been compounded by buyers coming out of the closet who desire the material (because of cheap prices) but can't pay in a timely manner.

 

On the flip side, this may be a good time to pick up some good buys providing one is in an investing mode. I believe the overall coin market is a lot weaker than many would realize.

[Mark T]

EBAY Sucks for the small time seller and will continue to suck unless a better alternative for selling coins other then listing them with an auction house comes along. I always list my coins as BIN Best Offer. A few weeks ago because of an EBAY ½ price special on Auction style listing fees I decided to try an Auction listing , with a reserve. . I set the reserve right around the wholesale value for each coin . Wholesale value on the coins ranged from $ 450 - $ 1200. The bidding was very soft and the prices bid were very low . So I went back to listing them as a no expiration BIN – BO. I had an offer on a 1910 – D PCGS MS 64 Barber dime of $ 200 . When I get an offer like that I always send a message with my offer rejection suggesting the buyer know the value of a coin before bidding. I have had coins listed for 4 months before they sold at a reasonable price.

 

[Connecticoin]

EBAY Sucks for the small time seller and will continue to suck unless a better alternative for selling coins other then listing them with an auction house comes along. I always list my coins as BIN Best Offer. A few weeks ago because of an EBAY ½ price special on Auction style listing fees I decided to try an Auction listing , with a reserve. . I set the reserve right around the wholesale value for each coin . Wholesale value on the coins ranged from $ 450 - $ 1200. The bidding was very soft and the prices bid were very low . So I went back to listing them as a no expiration BIN – BO. I had an offer on a 1910 – D PCGS MS 64 Barber dime of $ 200 . When I get an offer like that I always send a message with my offer rejection suggesting the buyer know the value of a coin before bidding. I have had coins listed for 4 months before they sold at a reasonable price.

 

 

You can set a minimum acceptable price on BINs to weed out very lowball offers.

 

However, your BIN prices appear to be in the neighborhood of 10% above greysheet bid, which is a retail level for many dealers at a coin show. On average, you can expect about 10% back of bid on ebay, unless the coin has exceptional eye appeal and you have great pictures. At 10% over bid, expect those listings to languish for several months, and probably never sell unless the market moves up during that time.

[Houston Investor]

There is no doubt Ebay is a wholesale site and I don't really disagree with the 10% back of bid observation above. I have had auction listings even at 10% back of bid and they did not sell. Ebay has become saturated with many sellers wholesaling material and coupled with this slow economy getting a good price there can be tough.

 

However, there is nothing wrong with listing your coins BIN say in an ebay store. I have had things sell at retail I thought I never would be able to move and items priced at wholesale which would not sell. The fixed monthly overhead expenses of doing this are less than many table fees at a show. Considering the Ebay variable overhead costs operating at CDN Bid + 10% is not a winning business model unless your able to buy material at 60% of Bid or less. Yes there are many show dealers selling stuff at Bid / Ask (Wholesale), however this is usually material they have walking into their shop at 50-60% of Bid.

 

Many dealers I know price their nice material based on major retail dealers pricelists like L&C Coins. L&C runs major multi page ads in CW and NN. Their extensive ad in 4-05-10 CW is an extensive price guide in itself. Their website is free. If it is hopeless to get retail, then why are they spending major bucks on National Ads? I have seen dealers at shows after buying a group of slab coins say at bluesheet, pulling out their copy of L&C's pricelist as a retail pricing reference when putting price stickers on their newps. Unless you can buy your material at 50-60% of CDN Bid, you will not be able to make it in the coin business unless you can retail your merchandise. I have always found the more you have material (better date coins for instance) that you competetion is not likely to have at blowout prices, the better chance there is for retail.

[Mark T]

EBAY Sucks for the small time seller and will continue to suck unless a better alternative for selling coins other then listing them with an auction house comes along. I always list my coins as BIN Best Offer. A few weeks ago because of an EBAY ½ price special on Auction style listing fees I decided to try an Auction listing , with a reserve. . I set the reserve right around the wholesale value for each coin . Wholesale value on the coins ranged from $ 450 - $ 1200. The bidding was very soft and the prices bid were very low . So I went back to listing them as a no expiration BIN – BO. I had an offer on a 1910 – D PCGS MS 64 Barber dime of $ 200 . When I get an offer like that I always send a message with my offer rejection suggesting the buyer know the value of a coin before bidding. I have had coins listed for 4 months before they sold at a reasonable price.

 

 

You can set a minimum acceptable price on BINs to weed out very lowball offers.

 

However, your BIN prices appear to be in the neighborhood of 10% above greysheet bid, which is a retail level for many dealers at a coin show. On average, you can expect about 10% back of bid on ebay, unless the coin has exceptional eye appeal and you have great pictures. At 10% over bid, expect those listings to languish for several months, and probably never sell unless the market moves up during that time.

 

Unsophisticated EBAY buyers have historical over paid for coins . I have plenty of dealers who try to low ball me , it is easy to see who is a dealer or if the buyer is just a collector . I am not looking to sell to a dealer rather the average collector. My BIN prices are very reasonable , a lot of sellers list Bin at PCGS and Numismedia Retail . I don’t bother with the auto rejection , I like to see all offers no matter how low.

All the pictures for my auction are set up as very high resolution digital and scanned images on a photobucket site. As I said in my first post , eventually my coins will sell , and they will sell for on average more then 10 % above listed wholesale.

 

 

[Houston Investor]

I agree with you Mark T - stick to your guns and you will eventually get your price. There are many on the Bay looking to rip material with some CheapA offer. I just treat them the same way I treat their sort at a show - "Thank you for your interest, however I operate on a narrow spread so everything is priced as marked, (and sometimes may add) if you want the item all I need is your money."

[Mark T]

I agree with you Mark T - stick to your guns and you will eventually get your price. There are many on the Bay looking to rip material with some CheapA offer. I just treat them the same way I treat their sort at a show - "Thank you for your interest, however I operate on a narrow spread so everything is priced as marked, (and sometimes may add) if you want the item all I need is your money."

 

I have no time line , I use EBAY to sell coins I no longer want for my collection or coins that I picked up on the cheap from Heritage. My longest time frame for a sale was 4 months

[James_OldeTowne]

EBAY Sucks for the small time seller and will continue to suck unless a better alternative for selling coins other then listing them with an auction house comes along.

Gentlemen, I know this comes across as spam when I say this (I suppose it is spam), but I have done really, really well at the smaller auction venue, and it isn't just me. This weekend, as part of my cataloging duties, I picked up four crates of albums that a number of collectors are selling. It's a very small sample size, but perhaps the word is getting out that there are far better ways than eBay to get fair money for your coins.

 

Just a thought... I absolutely and completely DO NOT miss eBay one bit.

[Connecticoin]

EBAY Sucks for the small time seller and will continue to suck unless a better alternative for selling coins other then listing them with an auction house comes along. I always list my coins as BIN Best Offer. A few weeks ago because of an EBAY ½ price special on Auction style listing fees I decided to try an Auction listing , with a reserve. . I set the reserve right around the wholesale value for each coin . Wholesale value on the coins ranged from $ 450 - $ 1200. The bidding was very soft and the prices bid were very low . So I went back to listing them as a no expiration BIN – BO. I had an offer on a 1910 – D PCGS MS 64 Barber dime of $ 200 . When I get an offer like that I always send a message with my offer rejection suggesting the buyer know the value of a coin before bidding. I have had coins listed for 4 months before they sold at a reasonable price.

 

 

You can set a minimum acceptable price on BINs to weed out very lowball offers.

 

However, your BIN prices appear to be in the neighborhood of 10% above greysheet bid, which is a retail level for many dealers at a coin show. On average, you can expect about 10% back of bid on ebay, unless the coin has exceptional eye appeal and you have great pictures. At 10% over bid, expect those listings to languish for several months, and probably never sell unless the market moves up during that time.

 

Unsophisticated EBAY buyers have historical over paid for coins . I have plenty of dealers who try to low ball me , it is easy to see who is a dealer or if the buyer is just a collector . I am not looking to sell to a dealer rather the average collector. My BIN prices are very reasonable , a lot of sellers list Bin at PCGS and Numismedia Retail . I don’t bother with the auto rejection , I like to see all offers no matter how low.

All the pictures for my auction are set up as very high resolution digital and scanned images on a photobucket site. As I said in my first post , eventually my coins will sell , and they will sell for on average more then 10 % above listed wholesale.

 

 

Right, then you should not complain about the coins taking 4 months to sell. 10% above "listed wholesale" is a typical dealer retail price. And "real wholesale" is typically "listed wholesale" less 10% or even less depending on the series.

[Mark T]

EBAY Sucks for the small time seller and will continue to suck unless a better alternative for selling coins other then listing them with an auction house comes along. I always list my coins as BIN Best Offer. A few weeks ago because of an EBAY ½ price special on Auction style listing fees I decided to try an Auction listing , with a reserve. I set the reserve right around the wholesale value for each coin . Wholesale value on the coins ranged from $ 450 - $ 1200. The bidding was very soft and the prices bid were very low . So I went back to listing them as a no expiration BIN – BO. I had an offer on a 1910 – D PCGS MS 64 Barber dime of $ 200 . When I get an offer like that I always send a message with my offer rejection suggesting the buyer know the value of a coin before bidding. I have had coins listed for 4 months before they sold at a reasonable price.

 

 

You can set a minimum acceptable price on BINs to weed out very lowball offers.

 

However, your BIN prices appear to be in the neighborhood of 10% above greysheet bid, which is a retail level for many dealers at a coin show. On average, you can expect about 10% back of bid on ebay, unless the coin has exceptional eye appeal and you have great pictures. At 10% over bid, expect those listings to languish for several months, and probably never sell unless the market moves up during that time.

 

Unsophisticated EBAY buyers have historical over paid for coins . I have plenty of dealers who try to low ball me , it is easy to see who is a dealer or if the buyer is just a collector . I am not looking to sell to a dealer rather the average collector. My BIN prices are very reasonable , a lot of sellers list Bin at PCGS and Numismedia Retail . I don’t bother with the auto rejection , I like to see all offers no matter how low.

All the pictures for my auction are set up as very high resolution digital and scanned images on a photobucket site. As I said in my first post , eventually my coins will sell , and they will sell for on average more then 10 % above listed wholesale.

 

 

Right, then you should not complain about the coins taking 4 months to sell. 10% above "listed wholesale" is a typical dealer retail price. And "real wholesale" is typically "listed wholesale" less 10% or even less depending on the series.

 

 

I am not complaining. I don’t care if my coins take a year to sell .

I think EBAY as a whole sucks as a place to sell coins, and not just because of the lack of interest for my listings. EBAY is flooded with junk and gullible people who purchase that junk. If you have experience selling or buying on EBAY you will understand my point and why that in itself can be an issue for a small time seller who does not have Powerseller status. You are giving most EBAY buyers way to much credit , there are more then enough of them that do not look at Grey Sheet or Wholesale. I have purchased coins from Heritage at below Wholesale and Grey sheet and re sold those coins for as much as a 25 % profit on EBAY.

Do you actually think I only look at Wholesale and Grey Sheet prices when I buy coins? As important or maybe even more so is recent price realized history .

 

You are approaching this discussion as if every buyer on EBAY thinks like a dealer , most EBAY buyers do not .

 

 

[cpm9ball]

This weekend, as part of my cataloging duties, I picked up four crates of albums that a number of collectors are selling.

 

Oh, goody, goody, goody! Do you need any help?

 

Chris

[Houston Investor]

I agree Mark T - not every ebayer is some player with a greysheet and IMO decent retail is possible there. There are people who buy on the Bay everyday who are not the Greysheet crowd. Stick to your guns and stand your ground. The Bay is not the retail haven it was in 98 and has become over saturated with dealers who wholesale to the public.

 

Based on published ads in CW and NN I recently analyzed (I do extensive excel spreadsheets on this), prices ranged from CDN Ask + 10% to CDN Ask + 40% with an industry average of Ask + 25%. CDN Ask is a dealer to dealer wholesale and can be 5 - 10% above CDN Bid. Consequently I reject the statement by a prior poster that typical dealer retail is Bid + 10%. I do know of one guy who is around 5% above bid but everybody knows he is a shrewd crackout artist and knowledgeable buyers shy away from his expensive (just made it) material.

 

Yes there are show dealers selling around Bid, but this is usually junk material that walked into the shop at 50-60% of Bid. Don't let them try to BS you at your table you that you should sell your nice stuff to them around sheet out of "courtesy." You don't owe them anything.

 

In terms of the original topic - my last 3 sales have consisted of 2 flake outs, and 1 who may not pay. An uncanny run of bad luck. I haven't blocked this many buyers in a long time.

[Connecticoin]

I agree Mark T - not every ebayer is some player with a greysheet and IMO decent retail is possible there. There are people who buy on the Bay everyday who are not the Greysheet crowd. Stick to your guns and stand your ground. The Bay is not the retail haven it was in 98 and has become over saturated with dealers who wholesale to the public.

 

Based on published ads in CW and NN I recently analyzed (I do extensive excel spreadsheets on this), prices ranged from CDN Ask + 10% to CDN Ask + 40% with an industry average of Ask + 25%. CDN Ask is a dealer to dealer wholesale and can be 5 - 10% above CDN Bid. Consequently I reject the statement by a prior poster that typical dealer retail is Bid + 10%. I do know of one guy who is around 5% above bid but everybody knows he is a shrewd crackout artist and knowledgeable buyers shy away from his expensive (just made it) material.

 

Yes there are show dealers selling around Bid, but this is usually junk material that walked into the shop at 50-60% of Bid. Don't let them try to BS you at your table you that you should sell your nice stuff to them around sheet out of "courtesy." You don't owe them anything.

 

In terms of the original topic - my last 3 sales have consisted of 2 flake outs, and 1 who may not pay. An uncanny run of bad luck. I haven't blocked this many buyers in a long time.

 

 

Are you looking at closed prices or current BINs of coins for sale in eBay stores? I have seen coins on ebay priced between 10% and 30% above Bid languish for months, even years. CLOSING prices average between 10% back and 10% above fair value, which usually is greysheet, but could be other sources (like auctions) for items that Greysheet misprices (like underpricing VF to AU type and Barber Halves). I would LOVE to get 25% above Greysheet, but that is just not going to happen unless I wait for up to a year and hope I get lucky.

[Houston Investor]

Connecticoin - I don't necessarily contest your point but as far as strategy I agree more with Mark T. Not everyone walking into the bourse room or on the Bay has a Greysheet in their hip pocket or is an expert on pricing. Furthermore Greysheet is wholesale so even if 80% looking at the items won't pay retail money (or have anything to sell me at my price) does not bother me - my focus both at shows and online is to have a positive P&L and enjoy the fun and games. This does not mean I will not occasionally wholesale certain material, especially bullion, overstocked items, or something I picked up on the cheap. Being in the business 20 years it is probably easier for a dealer to make a good margin on cheap stuff than expensive stuff but there are really no absolutes here. The key element is the desire of the buyer for the item. I had a 1950 PF 66 10c I listed at $70 (CW) that sold the next day. Perhaps it was the guys birthdate. I have had nice commems in 66 I had listed in Bay auction at 10-15% below CDN Bid that did not sell so go figure. I would never list expensive material at an opening bid of 99 cents.

 

I have on numerous occasion bought coins (Bay) from folks ATS touting their material in that forum even though I don't post there (love doing this, a hobby within a hobby) then flipped it at a nice price a short time later either at a show or on the Bay. A case in point was a VF 1812 50c, always a popular, tough coin. I really liked the coin but felt skeptical it would move quickly as I had it priced at full retail. I was shocked when it only lasted a week but perhaps the buyer wanted it more than me.

 

Many dealers have a core inventory value of coins they are going to retail no matter what. If the coins just sit there, they at least make a good display. Then they have layers of different things they will sell at sheet like bullion and stuff they picked up below sheet they have no problem just letting them rip in order to maintain cash flow and have money for any good deals that walk up. An astute dealer will want to get the best he can for his nice stuff, but not be afraid to certain other stuff go. Another strategic consideration - When you get into coins after say 1945, while it may be a common generic coin, it may be someone's birthdate. This type of buyer is usually a strong retail buyer.

 

Yes, its tough to retail in many situations but its all about strategy, having what they want, and people who will pay the money. On EA Sports College Football one of my fav plays is the Power Option out of the Wishbone Tight. I like to go run the play left so I have an offensive lineman at the Left TE position (High Run Block) and at LHB probably a RB that is a good blocker or even a TE (to block). At QB and RHB I have my fastest personnel for that position (sometimes I will need to improvise and put a speedy WR or CB at QB who has a little throwing ability coupled with great speed). I have my best linemen at LT and LG. The goal is to isolate my best players against their weakest links (DB's that are easily blocked) or catch them by surprise. I have broken many long TD's with this play and beaten many teams which basically shut down my offense otherwise.