Tough to Grade 1806 Gurk 20 Kreuzer

[JamminJ]

Hello everyone,

 

In a recent thread about my 1732 Bohemia 15K there was a discussion of the difficulty in grading very old coins, especially those which are unusual enough that only a few specimens could be examinied. One well respected board member was quoted as saying:

 

I was kind of surprised how off I was on my grading of the coins James sent in. On most of them I WAY undergraded the coins including a completely embarrassing coin that NGC graded AU55 and I thought F-15.

 

regarding this coin:

 

It's an 1806 Gurk 20 Kreuzer, KM 1. As far as I can tell this coin is very unusual. I've only seen three of these in person, mine above, Greg's (purchased from the same dealer as mine) and one in the Smithsonian. I've never seen one offered on e-bay, in a fixed price list or in any other dealer's case. This is a one year type and actually comprises the entire set of Gurk minor coinage as Gurk was granted the coinage right in the very same year the Holy Roman Empire dissolved.

 

Maybe it's just my poor luck on sein g so few, but in any event it makes it difficult to compare several specimins against one another to aid with the grading determination. I graded this coin a VF35, although I bumped my grade down from XF40 notch to counteract my mental bias from paying XF money for it. Greg called it a F15 and NGC an AU55.

 

How would you grade this coin and why? Remember you have seen exactly the same number of similar coins as I did when I bought it.

 

-JamminJ

 

 

[gmarguli]

I think the coin looks WAY better in the photo than in person. The coin relief is really shallow - REALLY shallow. I think that threw me the most. Had it been a Peace dollar with that much relief detail it would be in a G/VG slab. The color is also uniform and looks well circulated. Looking at the photo only I'd say XFish. Having gotten to reexamin the coin and having examined my example, I'm not excited about the AU55 grade, but I can understand my grade being WAY too low.

 

FYI, I was also grading the coin having never seen another one. I purchased mine after I sent James in to NGC.

 

Her up the Klippe? I'd like to see hte forum members grade that coin and get a laugh out of the way it sits in a slab.

[JamminJ]

Her up the Klippe? I'd like to see hte forum members grade that coin and get a laugh out of the way it sits in a slab.

 

It sure looks silly sitting in that slab:

 

-JamminJ

[truthteller]

When grading European coins using US standards, it becomes almost laughable. I can see why the world collectors find slabbing a bit backward. Using European grading standards, the coin looks Choice VF to XF. Accounting for shallow striking characteristics and luster in the fields, the grades goes Choice XF if lustrous. AU55 is almost a meaningless grade, except to US buyers who really don't ever see coins like this.

 

 

HEY!!! What about my challenge?? You know, a coin about a place where you have been????

 

 

 

TRUTH

[JamminJ]

HEY!!! What about my challenge?? You know, a coin about a place where you have been????

 

Don't worry, I remember and still have six coins to go before I need to post my story. I have the country I'd prefer picked out but am still looking for just the right coin. As a fallback I did buy a coin from my second choice.

 

-JamminJ

[JamminJ]

Using European grading standards, the coin looks Choice VF to XF. Accounting for shallow striking characteristics and luster in the fields, the grades goes Choice XF if lustrous.

 

In that case, Choice VF to XF it is!

 

-JamminJ

[GDJMSP]

I've never even heard of Gurk before this thread let alone seen one of these coins. And I certainly never would have graded this one AU55. A low XF would have been my guess just based on what appears to be a good deal of wear in the hair & face on the obverse and the drapery on the reverse.

 

I did discover however that there is a Gurk ducat - might have to look for one of those

[GDJMSP]

I have seen the klippes before. It's tough to make out how much detail is left on the coin based on the pic - but would not grade it above XF either.