Learned something new about Walkers today

[Walkerfan]

I took a couple of my key dates to an experienced local dealer today for an evaluation. One in particular, that I really like, he told me that it has "roll rub" from originally being in a mint state roll. I thought that it was part of the strike softness but he says no. It is graded MS 64 by pcgs and has got nice surfaces and great strike, except in that small area. He told me it would have 65ed for sure if not for that. How prevalent is this? Is it common? I would imagine so. What are your thoughts? I don't have pics yet. Thx.

[physics-fan3.14]

I had not heard this term either until I was talking to a couple of guys about a potential Walker purchase. I was looking in particular at a 1938D graded MS-65 on Ebay, and asked TomB his opinions on the coin. When he said it had stacking friction, this was his explanation:

 

"The terms of stacking or roll friction might not be used much anymore, but they are terms I became familiar with at least in the early 1980s, perhaps in the 1970s, and refer to coins that might by MS and might by AU. It seems that the dividing line for most folks is if the coin has superior eye appeal (good luster and few, if any, field marks) then it receives the MS grade while if the coin has a chatty field it receives the AU grade. SLQs, WLHs and WQs seem to be the coins that these terms apply to most frequently.

 

On SLQs one would see this most easily on and just above Ms. Liberty's right knee and the TPGs give out MS65 +/- grades on coins with this feature. For the SLQ series, I consider these strictly AU. On WQs the hair directly above the ear can be flat while the coin is a true MS piece and I do not exclude an MS grade for these coins. The WLH series has issues on the central portion of the eagle's breast either through faint rub or an incomplete strike. However, as one can see in the 1938-D, there are other areas that can have the luster impaired that are not the high point of the coin."

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

I am familiar with the terminology you described as “stacking friction” but it not only comes from coins being inserted into rolls. Coin rolls were put in bags and tossed about like hay bales. Trucked, lifted, stacked and rolled on dollies with steel wheels, I “shudder to think” what these rolls went through before they hit the collectors hands.

 

Now, go back to a time when there was no such thing as automatic payroll deposit, credit cards, ATMs, or any of the modern conveniences associated with money transactions. Banks were the central core to exchange payroll checks or personal checks, savings and or loan transactions. The bank tellers had drawers with “half pike” horizontal rows for the various denominations, cent through half dollar. The older western banks even had a row for silver dollars. These inserts for drawers were usually made of oak, but bake-a-lite was also used. With just one hand, an experienced teller could flick out the proper amount of change in each row. These drawers were also opened and closed continuously, creating a slight amount of friction between coins. There were also counter top tube machines that kept changed vertically “stacked” for easy access. All these methods caused rubbing on the highest of surfaces of even the modest of circulated coins.

 

(i.e. opening a bank wrapped roll of uncirculated or bagged loose coins right from the Federal Reserve to fill the bank drawers can and is misconstrued as an uncirculated coin, but how to prove that it was in uncirculated condition from back then is illusive.)

[James_OldeTowne]

I call it "roll friction", and it is very common across the series. When too obvious, it's a one point downgrade for me. It's a bothersome characteristic of the high relief design.

[supertooth]

Hello Folks----I'm back to my serious self with this reply to this post.

 

As a kid, I remember the tellers at the banks----or the employees at the supermarkets---or wherever----they all seemed to open the "new" rolls the same way. They banged them at the middle area and cracked the roll on the cash register drawers. Looking back on it now----that was quite violent for a coin. Then they dumped the coins from the paper roll with no more care than if they were dumping a shovel full of stones onto the ground.

 

So, now today, I see collectors looking through sometimes pretty expensive loupes----trying to tell if what happened to the coin from the minting process through the traveling to the banks and stores-----was "rub" or "stacking pressure" or actual beginnings of the circulation process?? Is the coin an AU58 or is it an MS64??

 

I guess that is why I tell folks that when you get to a grade of MS65 with a Walker, that you had better look at the coin "IN HAND". You simply CANNOT for sure tell about that coin from just looking at a picture---for a picture is but a two dimensional aid. This look and see in hand is especially necessary when dealing with the coins that jump exponentially in value from an MS64 to any higher graded coin.

 

I'll prove my point by asking whether you can "tilt" the picture on the computer screen----and rotate the coin?? Can you put the coin's picture under a "halogen" light source?? In short, can you do any of the things that one would do with the coin in hand?? And, certainly, you cannot tell from a picture whether that picture has been completely altered so that the coin looks better than it actually is in hand. The best that you can do is make a logical and an even educated guess.

 

So, to try and answer Walkerfan's question, I'll point to one of the best little Walker books. It's small----it is cheap [ about 7 to 12 bucks]. But, if you read it closely, Anthony Swiatek's "The Walking Liberty Half Dollar" book is worth its weight in silver. For it actually shows some pictures that make a lot of sense in this matter. So, if you don't own a copy, spend the few bucks and get one.

 

Sometime---you Walker guys and gals out there---take the time to sit down and make a list of "ALL" of the things that matter to you in grading "any" mint state Walker coin. I've done it----and there are a lot of things that I look for in any MS Walker. After you have written it all down, ask yourself ---IN TRUTH----how long would you really need to look at any particular coin---before you would be willing to give it a "final" grade?? If this is an "S" minted Walker, do you need more time?? Do you need more time for an "early" dated Walker?? More time for a really expensive jump from a 64 to a 65 graded coin??

 

Now, ask yourself---being that grading is subjective----whether the time alloted to the graders at the two major grading services is enough that you would lay your dollars on the line----WITHOUT seeing the coin in hand yourself??

 

If you don't own the Swiatek book, please get a copy. You all have a sunny Sunday afternoon. Bob [supertooth]

[Walkerfan]

I've probably seen it before but didn't know what it was. Must have thought that it was a poorly struck area. Glad to know that it is relatively common. Certainly, a coin like that must be considered MS and not AU, esp. when recognized by one of the major TPG Co.s. as a 64. Yes, it is bothersome but not too distracting, since it had to be pointed out to me. ! Thanks, Guys!

 

[Walkerfan]

Hello Folks----I'm back to my serious self with this reply to this post.

 

As a kid, I remember the tellers at the banks----or the employees at the supermarkets---or wherever----they all seemed to open the "new" rolls the same way. They banged them at the middle area and cracked the roll on the cash register drawers. Looking back on it now----that was quite violent for a coin. Then they dumped the coins from the paper roll with no more care than if they were dumping a shovel full of stones onto the ground.

 

So, now today, I see collectors looking through sometimes pretty expensive loupes----trying to tell if what happened to the coin from the minting process through the traveling to the banks and stores-----was "rub" or "stacking pressure" or actual beginnings of the circulation process?? Is the coin an AU58 or is it an MS64??

 

I guess that is why I tell folks that when you get to a grade of MS65 with a Walker, that you had better look at the coin "IN HAND". You simply CANNOT for sure tell about that coin from just looking at a picture---for a picture is but a two dimensional aid. This look and see in hand is especially necessary when dealing with the coins that jump exponentially in value from an MS64 to any higher graded coin.

 

I'll prove my point by asking whether you can "tilt" the picture on the computer screen----and rotate the coin?? Can you put the coin's picture under a "halogen" light source?? In short, can you do any of the things that one would do with the coin in hand?? And, certainly, you cannot tell from a picture whether that picture has been completely altered so that the coin looks better than it actually is in hand. The best that you can do is make a logical and an even educated guess.

 

So, to try and answer Walkerfan's question, I'll point to one of the best little Walker books. It's small----it is cheap [ about 7 to 12 bucks]. But, if you read it closely, Anthony Swiatek's "The Walking Liberty Half Dollar" book is worth its weight in silver. For it actually shows some pictures that make a lot of sense in this matter. So, if you don't own a copy, spend the few bucks and get one.

 

Sometime---you Walker guys and gals out there---take the time to sit down and make a list of "ALL" of the things that matter to you in grading "any" mint state Walker coin. I've done it----and there are a lot of things that I look for in any MS Walker. After you have written it all down, ask yourself ---IN TRUTH----how long would you really need to look at any particular coin---before you would be willing to give it a "final" grade?? If this is an "S" minted Walker, do you need more time?? Do you need more time for an "early" dated Walker?? More time for a really expensive jump from a 64 to a 65 graded coin??

 

Now, ask yourself---being that grading is subjective----whether the time alloted to the graders at the two major grading services is enough that you would lay your dollars on the line----WITHOUT seeing the coin in hand yourself??

 

If you don't own the Swiatek book, please get a copy. You all have a sunny Sunday afternoon. Bob [supertooth]

 

Just saw your reply while I was busy typing my other response. To answer your question, Bob, yes it is an early Walker and yes it is an S mint and yes the jump is enormous from 64-65. I don't own Swiatek's book or Fox's, either. I will def. invest in a copy upon hearing this. So...in your opinion, does roll friction keep a coin out of the MS level? James and I and my dealer friend all seem to agree that it does not; but drops the MS grade one point. How do you tell roll friction from circulated friction?? Thx.

[Walkerfan]

Additionally, This coin also has good luster and unblemished fields, which is really unusual, esp. the latter. The roll friction is not on the highest point of the coin, either. What tells ME that it is from a roll is that the details are very well struck but have an overall, let's call it a 'truncated' look. How much is attributed to strike and how much to roll presssure; I don't know. Thx.

[supertooth]

Walkerfan---- Please---Please do "NOT" take my words as being a "flip" reply. For they are not intended that way.

 

You need to buy that Swiatek book. And, you need to read that "Fox" book online. They tell me that it has been put there in its entirety.

 

This answer is just my answer to what I will buy. I look at the coin from various angles---tilted under normal lighting and then under my "halogen" lamp. Usually a coin with "wear" will have "other" issues too. But, if that left breast [ right as you look at the coin], is dull looking---or has faint hairline scratches---or has some loss of metal----then the coin should be an AU

 

If the coin is just a weak strike, then it likely will "NOT" be dull looking or have hairline scratches on that breast. It just won't have a fully struck appearance.

 

But, my remarks from my earlier above post----the graders don't get a lot of time to look at a coin the way that we look at the coin in hand. I mention that fact because if say they grade a common Walker as a 66 coin----when really it might only be a 65---it might only cost the buyer a 100 buck difference in price.

 

But, let's say that the coin was a 1917S Obverse coin. The grade on the holder was a 65. What a difference in price if the coin was only a 64 in reality. If you buy it as a 65, but then try to sell it back later and was told it was only a 64----WOW---what a difference.

 

Even worse, let's say you got that same date and mint coin in a 64 holder----paid MS64 price for it----but, when you went to resell was told that you really had a coin with rub ---- or hairlines-----and, it should have been graded as an AU58 coin. Then you go back to the grading service to complain----and then they tell you that grading is "subjective". Wow---would that blow your mind?? It no longer is a difference of a single point----but a whole new dilema.

 

So, it's a matter of definitely reading those books "FIRST BEFORE BUYING". But, also of sort of knowing YOURSELF---without having to ask others. What I scream about---know your series as good as or better than the dealers and trying to know it as well as or better than the TPGS folks.

 

When any of us really thinks about this----NO MATTER WHICH SERIES WE TALK ABOUT----don't we owe it to our hard earned money to be as KNOWLEDGABLE as possible?? Otherwise, who is the smarter person---- the collector or the TPGS or the dealer? It sure "IS NOT" the collector. I'll quit for awhile now. Bob [supertooth]

[RWB]

When any of us really thinks about this----NO MATTER WHICH SERIES WE TALK ABOUT----don't we owe it to our hard earned money to be as KNOWLEDGABLE as possible??

 

Excellent point. But fewer collectors seem to comprehend this.

[supertooth]

Walkerfan---- It definitely helps if the coin is well struck up and certainly a great asset if the surfaces are blemish free. Those are two points that "Always" go in a coin's favor when grading. And would definitely lean a grader towards an MS grade rather than an AU grade.

 

But, here again, we can only talk in generalities in this post. This is not something that can be resolved 100% on a forum post----no matter who is giving opinions.

 

I used to tell my patients that they could ask the same question to ten different dentists---and likely get a variation on ten different answers. One example was a very dear friend from N.H. For years we argued over whether it was better to drill and put pin posts into the tooth----or, in my phrase, to dig ditches for that retention? He was an excellent restorative dentist. But, we disagreed on this point even though we went to the same dental school and graduated in the very same year. Supposedly, my ditch theory won out over many years---yet I have a bicuspid that my friend did for me with 4 posts in it---still there after over 30 years. Can two knowledgable folks be both right and not wrong--yet differ in treatment---at the same time? I think so. Just as two knowledgable coin persons can approach an opinion from two different angles---neither one necessarily being any more right or wrong at the same time. Is the coin a 64 or a 65? It is afterall, SUBJECTIVE.

 

But, the key is----WHAT will you pay to own it?? Is it a 64 or a 65 to you?? Bob [supertooth]

[Walkerfan]

When any of us really thinks about this----NO MATTER WHICH SERIES WE TALK ABOUT----don't we owe it to our hard earned money to be as KNOWLEDGABLE as possible??

 

Excellent point. But fewer collectors seem to comprehend this.

 

I totally agree but there is always more to learn; that is why I joined this forum. Even experts in their fields can can always learn more.

[Walkerfan]

Walkerfan---- It definitely helps if the coin is well struck up and certainly a great asset if the surfaces are blemish free. Those are two points that "Always" go in a coin's favor when grading. And would definitely lean a grader towards an MS grade rather than an AU grade.

 

But, here again, we can only talk in generalities in this post. This is not something that can be resolved 100% on a forum post----no matter who is giving opinions.

 

I used to tell my patients that they could ask the same question to ten different dentists---and likely get a variation on ten different answers. One example was a very dear friend from N.H. For years we argued over whether it was better to drill and put pin posts into the tooth----or, in my phrase, to dig ditches for that retention? He was an excellent restorative dentist. But, we disagreed on this point even though we went to the same dental school and graduated in the very same year. Supposedly, my ditch theory won out over many years---yet I have a bicuspid that my friend did for me with 4 posts in it---still there after over 30 years. Can two knowledgable folks be both right and not wrong--yet differ in treatment---at the same time? I think so. Just as two knowledgable coin persons can approach an opinion from two different angles---neither one necessarily being any more right or wrong at the same time. Is the coin a 64 or a 65? It is afterall, SUBJECTIVE.

 

But, the key is----WHAT will you pay to own it?? Is it a 64 or a 65 to you?? Bob [supertooth]

 

Bob,

 

I have read the Fox book online several times (b/c it costs about $170 on the secondary market and has been out of print for many years) and consider myself to be an above average grader. I have never read Swiatek's book, however, as I was always told that the Fox book is the leading reference on the subject. There are absolutely no hairlines and no wear to the breast. The roll mark is in an odd area that is not a high point. I don't care if the coin is a 64 or 65 as I paid a very good price for it below 64 wholesale. I can't imagine that PCGS would grade a AU58 coin ms 64 but I'm sure it does happen. That would be my main concern. AU 58 would change everything vs. MS 64! I am VERY confident that the coin has never been in circulation but it DOES have a roll mark, which is probably considered to be like a bag mark to the TPGs; this is correct isn't it?-- If a TPG sees an abrasion that is known to have come from a roll and NOT circulation it is still MS....right? If that is the case I have no problem with the roll flaw. I do not think that you are being flip at all and I understand exactly where you are coming from. I always appreciate your comments as well as everyone else's unless someone is just blatantly offensive. I'm sorry, b/c I should have made myself clearer. My issue is also that roll pressure abrasions seem to be different than the abrasions caused by jingling around in a bag and seem a little more conspicuous and have different characteristics. Thanks.

[supertooth]

Walkerfan----- Keep in mind that "all" my comments are in general terms. Since I have not seen even a picture of this coin that you are describing to us, it would be impossible to offer any definitive opinions on that specific coin. My thoughts are trying to use sound general reasoning that could be applied to any Walker coin at any given time.

 

And, as a general rule, I'm sure that both PCGS and NGC graders are always trying to get it right. My points are that almost everyone gives them a 5% error rate. If you happen to get one of these coins----and, if the mark up in grade is for one of the real expensive dates and/or mints, then it could be an expensive lesson indeed.

 

Indeed the Fox book is the very best Walker book ever printed IMHO. It far outdistances all the others. But, like in so many things, some other references have many valid points in them. The Swiatek book has that when dealing with "rub"----and has written explanations concerning stacking pressure in at least two places in the book.

 

In general, it would be helpful if we did have some pictures to look at----and, if we knew where this roll mark was indeed located? If it is in an "odd" place, are you sure it is a roll mark and not a counting wheel mark? I've had that happen to me. Just asking to be sure. Bob [supertooth]

[Walkerfan]

Bob--I will try to get some pics up. My dealer friend is one of the strictest graders that I know, so he has mostly put my mind at ease. As far as the Swiatek book, you have really peaked my interest, b/c the other books do not mention roll friction/pressure that I know of. I have seen wheel marks before and those look alot different. Can you tell me this: Is roll pressure just like a bag mark in the sense that if a coin has it then the coin is still considered to be MS? Thanks alot.

[Walkerfan]

I call it "roll friction", and it is very common across the series. When too obvious, it's a one point downgrade for me. It's a bothersome characteristic of the high relief design.

 

Thank You, James, for answering my question. I am sure that you are right, b/c so far I have already been told this once by an impartial dealer and now you have verified it, also.

 

Walkerfan

[Walkerfan]

I got this from the PCGS Website Library and it answers my own question and backs up what James and my friend have told me:

 

"Silver coins are often plagued by contact marks. Large silver coins may have numerous coin contact marks, combined with coin-on-coin friction. These marks may be large, long, and deep. When they are severe, the coin's grade may be no higher than MS-60 or MS-61 and they may occasionally become so severe that PCGS will not grade them. Since silver is easily marked, it is often impossible to tell whether the contact marks are the result of another coin or a foreign object. If the striking object is a coin with a reeded edge, the resultant marks often are simply the "imprint" of the reeding. With smaller silver coins, it is difficult to determine the striking object, the main concern being the number, size, and location of the marks.

 

Coin-on-coin contact is very common on silver coins. On Bust coinage, this sometimes accounts for most of the contact marks. The cheek of Miss Liberty on Capped Bust half dollars and other Bust coinage is seen with this coin-on-coin friction in nearly all Uncirculated grades. Morgan dollars almost always have luster breaks on the hair above the ear and on the breast feathers. Of course, the larger silver coins will have more of this type of contact than will smaller coins. Roll Friction caused minor displacement of metal, mainly on the high points, seen on coins stored in rolls. Storage in rolls became commonplace within the last century, "localizing" the contact areas. Fewer "bag" marks are the result of placing coins in rolls, although the high points probably receive slightly more coin-on-coin friction in this storage method."

 

I posted this for everyones benefit; including myself.

 

IMHO, even though the roll friction on my coin is more moderate/intermediate than minor, which made me question it in the first place, I think that the strike, Luster and pristine fields, along with the coins overall rarity, are why this coin was graded as high as it was.

 

Thanks to All!

 

[supertooth]

Walkerfan---- In every serious post that I have seen on either PCGS or NGC forum---the folks seem to be satisfied that, if they feel it is stacking pressure and "NOT" wear----they might knock it down a point as you have suggested---but, they leave the coin as an MS piece. Most likely the coin's other attributes help it to carry the day and it is graded an MS coin. If the coin has good luster and the cartwheel is good----few marks etc.----good color and eye appeal----a good strike----then how could you go wrong?? Especially if the coin is original skinned and patina. Somewhere in all of that a TPGS grader has to decide where he falls. And, if the coin is lacking in one or more of the above----how much do you punish it? There is the great dilema if the coin is worth a lot of money.

 

Naturally, this is a grading opinion like everything else. And, one person's opinion may not match another's. I always tell stories so let me tell another one about a dear friend in San Diego. He bought an MS65 graded coin from PCGS-----1941S That coin had die striation lines EVERYWHERE. But, many of the lines looked like cleaning hairlines to me. I raised the alarm to my friend. I simply "did not" like the coin and I would not have purchased it. Was PCGS wrong? Who knows? Was I right? Who knows? But, he kept the coin. It is certainly a different kind of Walker. My only thing was that, if he resold, could he get his money back out of the coin? Who knows? I only knew that I didn't want the coin.

 

In truth, I try to avoid things that might be questionable. Sometimes you can do this---other times it is difficult. But, what I might avoid---others might not care about. What one collector or one TPGS might view as market acceptable---might not be viewed the same way by another collector or another grading service.

 

I think that is why I tell folks to sell just a few coins every once in awhile. You don't have to sell many---just a few. But, in selling, you get to see how you are doing in your buying techniques. You get to know how others feel about the coins that you are buying. If you come out ahead----MARCH ONWARD. If you don't make a few bucks, then you need to reevaluate your buying and how much that you are spending for what you are buying. That has helped me a great deal over the years to give me much confidence about how I am collecting and how good my eye for coins really is.

 

Again, in truth, we all go through that learning curve. We all make some few mistakes and we all do very well on certain other transactions. For me, I want to continue to learn----to continue to have some "FUN"----and to reasonably know that if I sold the whole collection tomorrow, that I would be happy with the results. Take care. Bob [supertooth]

[Walkerfan]

Bob-Thanks alot for answering my question and offering many fresh ideas and opinions. There are SOOO many variables in coin collecting, as you have alluded to, already, and some of the rarer dates are just so expensive and we never really know when we will get the chance at some of them again, w/o paying even more money or such a huge premium that we will never get a return much less a profit on our investment. As you have said, it is often variable and difficult to know what is market acceptable and what is not. Good coins move quickly, some you really regret not buying and others you are glad that you didn't. Often times you must make your decisions quickly. Some coins you know right away that you have made money and a good investment; others you may have lost some money. I think that most of us just want to break even in the short run and make a good profit in the long run. When spending a rather significant amount of money, it can be daunting, so I try to gain as much info and opinions as possible, so as not to lose now or in the future when I sell and, also, so I know at least on a small scale what people think. This 'sample' of people, so to speak, is like a mini market-acceptible indicator, so that there is some level of confidence. Thanks for being thought provoking and helping me look at the abstract. Once again this topic and discussion has been helpful and I have enjoyed it. Take care, too.

 

Walkerfan

[Conder101]

What it all really boils down to is "If we call it this then we justify calling a coin with a touch of wear a Mint State coin."

[WoodenJefferson]

At one time, I was naive enough to buy into "cabinet friction" rub. I'm certain there are plenty legitimate examples of this phenomenon out there, but to assess any coin that has a slight rub to the high points in this category is just an excuse to keep the coin at higher perceived grade.

 

There is a fine line between roll rub, stacking rub and a slight circulation rub. Who's to say what is what when it comes down to defining Mint State condition on these conditional coins.

[Walkerfan]

Then any Morgan Dollar that has bag marks or is not fully defined around the hair and ear is not MS. This would eliminate about 75% of morgan MS dollars and make them a lower grade.

[physics-fan3.14]

Then any Morgan Dollar that has bag marks or is not fully defined around the hair and ear is not MS. This would eliminate about 75% of morgan MS dollars and make them a lower grade.

 

There is a difference between rub and weak strike, which is what you refer to.

[Walkerfan]

Then any Morgan Dollar that has bag marks or is not fully defined around the hair and ear is not MS. This would eliminate about 75% of morgan MS dollars and make them a lower grade.

 

There is a difference between rub and weak strike, which is what you refer to.

 

This is not true. Bag marks are caused by rub, as is rub on the hair and other highpoints of MS Morgan Silver dollars from having been in bags. You see it all the time. Nothing is perfect. I think that what it boils down to is the severity. Does it look bad? If yes then it is unacceptable.

[cpm9ball]

Then any Morgan Dollar that has bag marks or is not fully defined around the hair and ear is not MS. This would eliminate about 75% of morgan MS dollars and make them a lower grade.

 

Many times, the lack of definition of the ear and hair around it is due to a weak strike and does not necessarily mean that they should grade lower. Such is the case with many of the New Orleans minted Morgans.

 

Chris

[Walkerfan]

Then any Morgan Dollar that has bag marks or is not fully defined around the hair and ear is not MS. This would eliminate about 75% of morgan MS dollars and make them a lower grade.

 

Many times, the lack of definition of the ear and hair around it is due to a weak strike and does not necessarily mean that they should grade lower. Such is the case with many of the New Orleans minted Morgans.

 

Chris

 

This is true but bag marks can cause this, too. You know something, guys? The more that I look at this coin I am starting to believe that this is definitely NOT a 'roll friction' issue as this dealer has told me and that it IS a striking issue. I had not heard of roll friction before and was not really familiar with it. I think that possibly some foreign material such as dirt or grease got in between the dies and the planchet and this is what has happened. I got scared and bought into this 'roll friction' business, I will try to get some pics up so we can continue this later. Thanks.

[cpm9ball]

Then any Morgan Dollar that has bag marks or is not fully defined around the hair and ear is not MS. This would eliminate about 75% of morgan MS dollars and make them a lower grade.

 

Many times, the lack of definition of the ear and hair around it is due to a weak strike and does not necessarily mean that they should grade lower. Such is the case with many of the New Orleans minted Morgans.

 

Chris

 

This is true but bag marks can cause this, too.

 

In my opinion, it's highly doubtful that bag marks and weak strike can be confused for one another. Here are two photos of an 1888-O, PCGS MS63 that was the "victim" of a weak strike. Note the bag marks on Liberty's face.

 

Chris

 

[Walkerfan]

Thanks, Chris. I am starting to believe that this is more of a stike issue with my coin, although one that I've not quite seen before.

[WoodenJefferson]

 

 

Clue:

 

On the larger coins like the Morgan dollars, you can sometimes still see in areas that did not fully strike up, roller striations that were originally imparted on the surface of the planchets.

[Walkerfan]

 

Clue:

 

On the larger coins like the Morgan dollars, you can sometimes still see in areas that did not fully strike up, roller striations that were originally imparted on the surface of the planchets.

 

Thanks for your info. I have concluded that this is either a soft strike, planchet flaw or has been struck through grease. It is definitely NOT 'roll or stacking friction'. It is not on a highpoint area of the coin and the surface, color and luster are all consistent. Thanks 2 all.