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ANACS crackouts/crossovers to NGC - guess the grades

Started by Hard Times,

116 posts in this topic

James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

I am not a big fan of how NGC grades gold, particularly where strike issues are a concern. Although they have tightened their standards considerably since advent of the EdgeView holder, I sometimes find myself grading a coin 1-3 points lower still. This is a big improvement from the past, when I literally would be 10 points off on some coins.

 

All that being said, I like this O-mint gold at AU-50 or possibly slightly higher for a commercial grade.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Schatz,

I have one more submitted with this group, it was raw from the onset and not a crackout. It poses its own set of complications because it was a strongly toned piece. I can post it tonite for discussion and grading if there is interest....

 

James,

Gold grading can be very complicated because of the strike issues for certain dates, mintmarks, and die varieties, but also because of toning issues. PCGS is no better than NGC for this, do you/they, downgrade for dipped out pieces? They don't seem to penalize for this but instead give credit! I think the movement now for many gold collectors is trying to find crusty pieces in original skins. I feel both top TPG's undergrade crusty originals relative to dipped out pieces Another issue, especially in the higher grades, is how you grade bag marks and how that affects eye appeal. I have seen MS62-MS64 Liberty quarter through double eagles that are downright ugly because of their hits, and of course, some issues are even worse for this than others. So how does that affect the grade? And even worse, what if that baggy MS61-63 is a dipped out specimen? I can post an MS63 quarter eagle I have that has very few hits and has its original skin with gorgeous orange toning and ravishing eye appeal. Yet most people will not give extra value for this eye appeal because it is considered a bullion date, and its siblings at the same grade will go for the same price with more bag marks and washed out surfaces from dipping!

 

 

Thanks, Al

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L1ncolnF4n

L1ncolnF4n

Posted
Posted
Schatz,

I have one more submitted with this group, it was raw from the onset and not a crackout. It poses its own set of complications because it was a strongly toned piece. I can post it tonite for discussion and grading if there is interest....

 

Thanks, Al

 

Put it up!

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Thanks tejas and everyone,

Here is the last one of this submission from FUN. I purchased it raw, it is not a crack out. BTW, tejas, 1836 - a very historic year for us Texicans eh? Especially April 21 was a proud day... Okay back to it. This is an interesting specimen to grade. Strike - FB? Toning - AT, NT, what grade in MS? All of those things to discuss. The pre-NGC raw photo below is not my best work. I find Mercs very hard to get just right - contrast is hard to get correct with all of the flash these exhibit. I will post the result tomorrow. Schatz, this is your shining moment - 6 for 6?

 

What did NGC grade it?

 

1938merccomp.jpg

 

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

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I believe the toning to be natural, though a bit dark for my tastes. I do like the blues, though. I would guess 66 - with full bands. The middle bands are just barely make it, I think, but they are there.

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Mark T

Mark T

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Most likely MS 66 , FB .

You have a shot at MS 67 depending on how tough NGC was with the nicks on the fasces. I will assume the luster on this coin is very strong .

Depending on what angle you shoot this type of coin one with full bands can look like one that does not have full bands. I am pretty confident this one would have no trouble getting a FB designation.

 

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prudden

prudden

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It looks NT so I'll say it graded.I'm going to say MS67 .I would say FSB but this is NGC and I'm told they and PCGS grade that differently.I don't know the differences so I'll pass on the designation.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Here is the NGC grade result. Right now, NGC seems to absolutely paranoid with toning. No way is this AT, NO WAY NGC!!! (tsk)

Take my 30$ and XXFFXX%$S!!

 

:frustrated:

 

I generally agree with the consensus that this is a MS66FB, maybe a 66.6 that makes it a 67 on a day where the graders are in a good mood. But still, no way that this is AT. BTW, the streaks on the cheek and neck are actually die polish lines and not scratches.

It would be great is this thread can continue with posting photos and discussing grades and issues on how grades are assigned. But I am all out of recent submissions so if someone wants to post here, or start a new thread, lez keep it goin'!

 

Thanks everyone for a stimulating dialogue!

 

 

1938mercMScomp.jpg

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L1ncolnF4n

L1ncolnF4n

Posted
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Here is the NGC grade result. Right now, NGC seems to absolutely paranoid with toning. No way is this AT, NO WAY NGC!!! (tsk)

Take my 30$ and XXFFXX%$S!!

 

:frustrated:

 

I generally agree with the consensus that this is a MS66FB, maybe a 66.6 that makes it a 67 on a day where the graders are in a good mood. But still, no way that this is AT. BTW, the streaks on the cheek and neck are actually die polish lines and not scratches.

It would be great is this thread can continue with posting photos and discussing grades and issues on how grades are assigned. But I am all out of recent submissions so if someone wants to post here, or start a new thread, lez keep it goin'!

 

Thanks everyone for a stimulating dialogue!

 

 

SEND IT BACK FOR A REFUND! lol

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SWNGC

SWNGC

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Now that you're done with the submissions, keep in mind that if you show the full label/cert number from the first submission, anyone can simply cycle through the other 1-5 numbers of your submission via the cert-check and see what the grades were on the rest (i.e. cheat!)... (In other words, mask the cert number in the pics!)

 

doh! doh!

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Well I think what I will do it take it with me to ANA Ft. Worth, and when NGC has the 'meet the grader' hour I will note the consensus view about this specimen posted here that it is NT and put him/her on the spot.......

 

With respect to how the specimen, and the others posted here, look to the eye, I try to make the photos as accurate as I can including color. One key is getting the white balance correct for the set of lights you are using. The Mark Goodman book was very good in educating me on this, thanks to Mark. So yes the toned Merc pretty much looks like it does in the pics, especially the last one where my technique has improved.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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I agree with coinman - NGC should have gotten this right to begin with, I only loose $ if I regrade this specimen again given its potential sale value. Lesson from this, don't buy ungraded nicely toned coins right now unless you are VD sure that the top TPG's will find them acceptable.

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