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Collector's Universe sold Bowers and Merena to Spectrum?

Started by truthteller,

26 posts in this topic

truthteller

truthteller

Posted
Posted

Saw this on the PCGS boards and was scuttlebutt at the LB show. Does anyone know the facts? Does this mean CU is selling off divisions?

 

 

 

TRUTH

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Leothelion

Leothelion

Posted
Posted

Since Bowers and Merena have long departed that scene, why would anyone buy it? It's just another way for someone to profit off the hype of their names that doesn't really exist anymore! 27_laughing.gif

 

Leo

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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted

First I've heard of this. B&M web site lists CU as the owner, but B&M only updates their site once every decade. CU still lists as owning it. Spectrum's site doesn't mention it.

 

I'm not surprised that B&M was sold. It was a completely disastrous purchase for CU. All the key people left or were fired. They pissed off people throughout the industry at the way they handled personnel things.

 

I can't imagine that the B&M name is worth much today. A 100 grand or so? Certainly not the $16 million(?) that they paid for it. Another wonderful business decision for the incompetent people running that place.

 

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TomB

TomB

Posted
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They paid $16 million for that name originally?!?!?! shocked.gif I don't believe it would ever have been worth that kind of money.

 

If the rumor is true, it might be the best piece of news for B&M.

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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
If they were going to sell it,they shouldhave sold it to Q. David Bowers last year, rather than firing Bowers.

 

Can you imagine how bad that would look to the stocksuckers..er..stockholders. Buying something for $16M and then selling it back to the original seller for what is likely a fraction of the purchase price.

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lclugza

lclugza

Posted
Posted

That reminds me of the guy who paid to use the name "B. Max Mehl" after Mehl passed away. (For those of you who don't know, Mehl was THE preeminent coin dealer in the first half of the 20th century.) The guy wasn't in business using Mehl's name too long- I guess just a name doesn't inspire confidence in a company.

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sanmary

sanmary

Posted
Posted

Good point. EVERYONE knew that Mr. Bowers was no longer involved after his firing so why would any previous B&M customer give a damn? ANR sent me a complimentary cataloge in January for their auction, which was much appreciated, but it arrived only 2 days before the bidding deadline?

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MikeKing

MikeKing

Posted
Posted

ANR sent me a complimentary cataloge in January for their auction, which was much appreciated, but it arrived only 2 days before the bidding deadline?

 

ANR has a lot of things to get right yet

I love them and I hate them

(well..hate is too strong a word, but you know what I mean)

If only they'd answer my emails

 

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kranky

kranky

Posted
Posted
If they were going to sell it,they shouldhave sold it to Q. David Bowers last year, rather than firing Bowers.

 

Can you imagine how bad that would look to the stocksuckers..er..stockholders. Buying something for $16M and then selling it back to the original seller for what is likely a fraction of the purchase price.

 

Didn't QDB already do that once? I'm fairly certain that he sold Bowers & Ruddy to General Mills, and bought it back later for less.

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BushMan

BushMan

Posted
Posted

Didn't QDB already do that once? I'm fairly certain that he sold Bowers & Ruddy to General Mills, and bought it back later for less.

Yes, but the over-stuffed ego of HisRoyalHighness would never be able to deal with the entire coin collecting world and Wall Street knowing what a businessman he is. So, better to fire QDB and then sell the subsidiary elsewhere. He is such a pathetically small person.

 

He will still be revealed as a poor business person, if the story is true. As a public corporation, CU will have to reveal the sale.

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
That reminds me of the guy who paid to use the name "B. Max Mehl" after Mehl passed away. (For those of you who don't know, Mehl was THE preeminent coin dealer in the first half of the 20th century.) The guy wasn't in business using Mehl's name too long- I guess just a name doesn't inspire confidence in a company.

 

B. Max Mehl was great promoter for his business and probably for the hobby, but he was not a great numismatist. Back in the early 1970s I met some collectors who had purchased coins from him in the 1930s and '40s. The coins were uniformally overgraded, and those collectors indicated to me that that was pretty much his style. Of course the prices they paid were so low back then that by the 1970s they could turn a profit (at least monetary if not a "real" profit adjusted for inflation) on everything that they had purchased.

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lclugza

lclugza

Posted
Posted

Written by Condor101 on the CU forum:

 

"Yes Greg Manning bought the sports card auction company, Kingswood auctions, B&M Auctions, B&M retail business, the B&M library and the rights to all of the books published by B&M for 2.5 million. CU paid Bowers 8 million for just B&M back when they bought it."

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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
CU paid Bowers 8 million for just B&M back when they bought it."

 

I believe it was $8M in cash & $8M in CU stock for a total of $16M.

 

CU also stated that they have $8M in inventory. I don't know where this $8M is because they have about 100 coins listed on their web site. It must be $8M in PCGS Price MisGuide value.

 

You gotta love the MASSIVE failure this was for David Hall. This had to have hurt the unethical scumbags massive ego. cloud9.gif

 

Someone mentioned that the plan is to cut CU down to PCGS & PSA. Those are the two profitable businesses. It'll be interesting to see if he can run those into the ground. From what I keep hearing, PSA isn't exactly a "gem".

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jtryka

jtryka

Posted
Posted

I can't believe CLCT is a $9 stock with a $55 million market cap! I suppose the stock price has more to do with the reverse split, but the market cap still seems high for just two grading businesses. confused-smiley-013.gif

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Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
Posted

Two forces at work, which will probably offset each other.

 

1) Giving up on the retail businesses reduces the growth prospects which should reduce the multiple accorded the stock

 

2) Focusing on core competency increases the odds of consistent profits, which should increase the multiple accorded the stock

 

Should be a wash.

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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
Two forces at work, which will probably offset each other.

 

1) Giving up on the retail businesses reduces the growth prospects which should reduce the multiple accorded the stock

 

2) Focusing on core competency increases the odds of consistent profits, which should increase the multiple accorded the stock

 

Should be a wash.

 

In order for the market to give a higher multiple for the stock, CU will have to show that they can grow earnings at PCGS & PSA. Can PCGS grow its business? They had a nice pop with the registry, but that is over. The real increase in submissions can mainly be linked to a rising market. PCGS has no control over that. When the market tanks, and it will, so will their submissions.

 

The coin grading market is pretty much a mature market. Foreign coins might never become a big hit slabbed. How many classics are still out there waiting to be graded? Lots of them under $100 in value. Not exactly a profitable area for grading companies.

 

I don't know too much about the sportscard grading business, but everything I have heard about PSA is negative.

 

Getting rid of the auction businesses, which have little overhead and no inventory, might not be a great move. Getting rid of the retail businesses likely is, but not the auction businesses. And of course when the coin market tanks and submissions fall, CU will be held hostage to this. They cannot look to other businesses under their umbrella to provide revenue to keep their afloat. Will CU retain enough cash or will they spread it around to their board members? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I can't believe CLCT is a $9 stock with a $55 million market cap! I suppose the stock price has more to do with the reverse split, but the market cap still seems high for just two grading businesses. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Can you explain this a bit? Just curious... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

jom

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jtryka

jtryka

Posted
Posted
I can't believe CLCT is a $9 stock with a $55 million market cap! I suppose the stock price has more to do with the reverse split, but the market cap still seems high for just two grading businesses. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Can you explain this a bit? Just curious... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

jom

 

I can try to explain, within the limits of what I can say relating to a stock on a public forum, what specifically do you not understand?

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