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PCGS called this FE cent MS64!!!

Started by ER,

22 posts in this topic

michael

michael

Posted
Posted

weak strike from misaligned dies and downgraded as such to an ms64

 

otherwise really mark free and really REALLY eye appealling for a flyer the color and surfaces are superb

 

quite unusual

 

i grade this coin $975 to $1200

 

 

 

michael

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michael

michael

Posted
Posted

i bet fantastic lustre too

 

i am starting to like this coin more and more

 

but i will try to contain myself

 

this coin is kind of like a perfectly cut lazare kaplin cut prefect table flawless totally flawless and monster eye appealling and totally colorless stone 5 carats bluewhite color as it is so white it looks bluewhite in the reflection

 

but there is a visible fracture in the middle of the stone

 

 

 

 

michael

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Newmismatist

Newmismatist

Posted
Posted

Here's another that PCGS called MS64, also a weak strike and also streaky obv toning. (I looked at the Heritage coin at FUN - noted it as a negative coin for the assigned grade - it sold for $1092). The DL coin looks even weaker & I would price it at back of 64 money as the detail is simply not there. Also, looks somewaht dull & lifeless - I think there's better places to spend a $1000+ than on a "problem" coin, especially when there are nice one's available. JMHO

 

Link to Heritage FUN Signature Auction 1857 MS64 FE 1CN

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goose3

goose3

Posted
Posted

on a side note, the first FE linked looks like it may be an EDS of the S16 at first glance. (weeping wing variety which seems to be more and more common)

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted

Both coins seem to be terribly pictures--DLRC, as I find, captures no luster at all, and Heritage often misses, as well...

 

Exactly. They use a scanner which in most cases is not good for getting the luster of the coin.

 

Heritage is all over the place. Their pics are WAY off many times, especially the color. I see the beautiful orange toned gold coins on their site but when I view the auction lots they are crappy copper toned junk unc. Their photographer is color blind as far as I can tell.... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

The llink Newmismatist gave is an example of a coin that came out too dark so they brightened the picture. Look at the PCGS label....it's almost white... 893whatthe.gif

 

jom

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BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

Strike does influence the grade, and the strike on this coin falls short of MS-64. Lack of wing detail and a flat tail do not make the grade in my book.

 

This is an example of "grade-flation." I've noticed that what used to be a MS-64 is now MS-65 and what MS-63 now sometimes gets to be MS-64. foreheadslap.gif

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Newmismatist

Newmismatist

Posted
Posted
Heritage is all over the place. Their pics are WAY off many times, especially the color. I see the beautiful orange toned gold coins on their site but when I view the auction lots they are crappy copper toned junk unc. Their photographer is color blind as far as I can tell.... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

jom, I don't think the Heritage photographer is color blind, just over worked. 1st, they scan most of their pics with a scanner, not digital photography, second, they have to image an incredible number of coins, & I think they have a set copy stand with a fixed camera, and snap away at probably 200 coins per hour. When I was at the 2004 Heritage FUN auctions, they had probably imaged 6-8000 coins for the numerous auctions they had, all on a deadline to get the catalogues in Print and up online for viewing. When I sold my Proof IHC set last year, I spoke with the photographer, and she re-shot a number of my coins so that they looked the way my coins really looked. I was lcuky because I had consigned my coins early and she had time to take the photos, send them to me to review and then re-shoot the one's that didn't turn out as nice as I thought they should have. If I had sent my coins the week before the printer deadline that wouldn't have happened & the images wouldn't have been nearly as nice. Getting nice images of copper is difficult. Here's a couple that were done by Heritage for me.

383065-1903PR66RDlarge.jpg

 

380421-1905PR66RDlarge.jpg

 

As you can see, the Heritage photgrapher is definately NOT color-blind! flowerred.gif

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michael

michael

Posted
Posted

Grading is all over the planet on Unc. Flyers. Many 5s have weak strikes and / or ugly toning. Finding a nice one is like looking for an attractive Liberty Nickel.

 

 

elcon

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

 

This is great post for those who think that PCGS walks on water.

 

--------------------bill jones

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

as per the above very well said

 

 

michael

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CarlWohlforth

CarlWohlforth

Posted
Posted

Here is another PCGS MS 64 Flyer. I put this one into my collection. I did pay quite a bit for it though. This strike puts those other two to shame. The color on the reverse matches the obverse but I didn't get it right in the photo below.

 

1858FlyerObv.jpg

 

1858FlyerRev.jpg

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IrishMike

IrishMike

Posted
Posted

Carl, I apprectiate it every time you post that coin, as you know I have long admired it. It always strikes me as a 65. Both grading services give a wide latitude on the 64 grade on flyers and IHC's. Dings seem to be the determining factor in this grade more so than strike.

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Newmismatist

Newmismatist

Posted
Posted
Here is another PCGS MS 64 Flyer. I put this one into my collection. I did pay quite a bit for it though. This strike puts those other two to shame. The color on the reverse matches the obverse but I didn't get it right in the photo below.

 

Carl, I'll take a dozen MS 64 Flyers that look like yours - as for the one that started this thread, I'd wouldn't put it in my collection if it was given to me - I'd worry that people would think I had no clue as to how to grade coins if they saw it in my collection - it'd be an embarassment shocked.gif

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Elcontador

Elcontador

Posted
Posted

Carl,

 

The strike on the obverse is a good example of what a high end Flyer should look like. For all I know, it could be on Rick Snow's website. I guess it's in a 4 holder due some minor contact marks between the O in one and C in cent. Nice coin; it's definitely worth a premium.

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CarlWohlforth

CarlWohlforth

Posted
Posted

"The strike on the obverse is a good example of what a high end Flyer should look like. For all I know, it could be on Rick Snow's website. I guess it's in a 4 holder due some minor contact marks between the O in one and C in cent. Nice coin; it's definitely worth a premium."

 

My coin does have a Rick Snow photoseal. I was thinking the spot just under the Eagle's leg kept it at 64. Perhaps I'll try for an upgrade someday.

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