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Question on Toning

Started by DC Dawg,

21 posts in this topic

DC Dawg

DC Dawg

Posted
Posted

I am not trying to start a holy war but I wanted clarification regarding toned coins...

 

Toning on coins is the result of environmental changes to the metals. Just as a coin is environmentally changed if stored improperly stored, the surface tones when the environment changes the metal. Thus, why are toned coins not considered "damaged?"

 

Scott :hi:

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

Some folks do consider toned coins damaged and I would believe that it is more than a trivial percentage of folks who believe they are damaged. Truly, any coin with any post-mint alteration may be considered damaged, if one defines the term broadly and in this manner, and this would extend to toned coins, dipped white coins and coins that have any degree of wear from circulation.

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gmarguli

gmarguli

Posted
Posted
Thus, why are toned coins not considered "damaged?"

 

Because it is a natural reaction.

 

And they're pretty and we don't usually call pretty things damaged.

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted

IMO, an overwhelming majority of people who consider toning damage have read Weimar White's book COIN CHEMISTRY. He should have entitled the book DIP EM ALL, LET GOD SORT EM OUT. :devil:

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

When you exercise, you cause trauma to your muscles. Yet, is that considered damage? Of course not, because exercise is a necessary component of good health. Thus, the reason toning is not "damage" is because it is considered attractive and a normal aspect of proper coin storage.

 

"Damage" carries negative connotation, but there are innumerable situations in life where "damage" has nothing but positive benefit.

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Catbert

Catbert

Posted
Posted
When you exercise, you cause trauma to your muscles. Yet, is that considered damage? Of course not, because exercise is a necessary component of good health. Thus, the reason toning is not "damage" is because it is considered attractive and a normal aspect of proper coin storage.

 

"Damage" carries negative connotation, but there are innumerable situations in life where "damage" has nothing but positive benefit.

 

Hmmm....muscles do heal and recover.

 

I prefer the wine analogy. Wine when first produced may be found to be simple, but not yet developed. Over time, a wine changes in character and exhibits flavoring and complexities that are pleasing to one's sensibilities. However, a too old wine turns to vinegar and no longer satisfies.

 

And so, I like nicely toned coins because they have developed character and they are pleasing to my eye. Calling them damaged is wrong in this context.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
When you exercise, you cause trauma to your muscles. Yet, is that considered damage? Of course not, because exercise is a necessary component of good health. Thus, the reason toning is not "damage" is because it is considered attractive and a normal aspect of proper coin storage.

 

"Damage" carries negative connotation, but there are innumerable situations in life where "damage" has nothing but positive benefit.

 

Hmmm....muscles do heal and recover.

Well sure, they do. I was just using one example of "damage" that is part of a positive process. Another example would be fine leather furniture. It isn't really optimal until it has been "damaged" by use. Or your car's engine, for another example. It must be "damaged" by being broken in for 1000 miles or so before it begins to run the best.

 

Don't we "damage" food when we cook it? or "damage" wood when it is cut up and used to construct a home? or "damage" a sheep's wool when it is used to make a sweater? So in short, no, "toning" is not "damage". It is merely one step in a common chemical process that has neither a positive nor a negative connotation in and of itself. It is entirely dependent on us to evaluate whether it's a positive or negative, and that is 100% subjective.

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DC Dawg

DC Dawg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Don't we "damage" food when we cook it? or "damage" wood when it is cut up and used to construct a home? or "damage" a sheep's wool when it is used to make a sweater? So in short, no, "toning" is not "damage". It is merely one step in a common chemical process that has neither a positive nor a negative connotation in and of itself. It is entirely dependent on us to evaluate whether it's a positive or negative, and that is 100% subjective.

This is the best explanation I've seen so far. Basically, it's a matter of perspective, which is an acceptable answer (IMHO).

 

THANKS!

 

Scott :hi:

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Don't we "damage" food when we cook it? or "damage" wood when it is cut up and used to construct a home? or "damage" a sheep's wool when it is used to make a sweater? So in short, no, "toning" is not "damage". It is merely one step in a common chemical process that has neither a positive nor a negative connotation in and of itself. It is entirely dependent on us to evaluate whether it's a positive or negative, and that is 100% subjective.

This is the best explanation I've seen so far. Basically, it's a matter of perspective, which is an acceptable answer (IMHO).

 

THANKS!

 

Scott :hi:

 

 

Whew! That's a relief! I guess you can now let your wife go to the beauty salon for the hair coloring and the tanning salon, too!

 

Chris

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
I just wish more of the folks that believe toning = damage (and there are a lot of them) would sell me their damaged coins for prices below sheet :cloud9:

 

 

:whee:

 

What he said!

 

Ummmmmmmmmm?

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

That is..........................if Shane has any extra cash.

 

Chris

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Chris.........It is good seeing you post. :hi:

 

Thanks! I've been out of the loop for the past year and I will probably still be for a couple more months. My computer is still packed away and I'm using that of a friend, but I don't like to overstep my bounds.

 

Chris

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DC Dawg

DC Dawg

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Don't we "damage" food when we cook it? or "damage" wood when it is cut up and used to construct a home? or "damage" a sheep's wool when it is used to make a sweater? So in short, no, "toning" is not "damage". It is merely one step in a common chemical process that has neither a positive nor a negative connotation in and of itself. It is entirely dependent on us to evaluate whether it's a positive or negative, and that is 100% subjective.

This is the best explanation I've seen so far. Basically, it's a matter of perspective, which is an acceptable answer (IMHO).

 

THANKS!

 

Scott :hi:

 

 

Whew! That's a relief! I guess you can now let your wife go to the beauty salon for the hair coloring and the tanning salon, too!

My wife does get her hair colored and I question that, too. She doesn't do the tanning salon. I, OTOH, am all natural... including the male pattern baldness with flecks of gray. I'm naturally toning! lol

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted
I just wish more of the folks that believe toning = damage (and there are a lot of them) would sell me their damaged coins for prices below sheet :cloud9:

 

 

:whee:

 

What he said!

 

Ummmmmmmmmm?

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

That is..........................if Shane has any extra cash.

 

Chris

 

 

 

I do now buddy.....had some restricted stock finally mature so I was able to sell.....not a lot of loot but takes care of Christmas :banana:

 

Hopefully we you will be able to stick around Chris as it's much more fun to talk about you when you are around...then behind your back lol

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
I just wish more of the folks that believe toning = damage (and there are a lot of them) would sell me their damaged coins for prices below sheet :cloud9:

 

 

:whee:

 

What he said!

 

Ummmmmmmmmm?

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

That is..........................if Shane has any extra cash.

 

Chris

 

 

 

I do now buddy.....had some restricted stock finally mature so I was able to sell.....not a lot of loot but takes care of Christmas :banana:

 

Hopefully we you will be able to stick around Chris as it's much more fun to talk about you when you are around...then behind your back lol

 

Shane, you can talk behind my back all you want, but the next time we get together, I'm going to eat a lot of beans beforehand.

 

PS. Don't forget! I always consider the source.

 

Chris

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted
I just wish more of the folks that believe toning = damage (and there are a lot of them) would sell me their damaged coins for prices below sheet :cloud9:

 

 

:whee:

 

What he said!

 

Ummmmmmmmmm?

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

That is..........................if Shane has any extra cash.

 

Chris

 

 

 

I do now buddy.....had some restricted stock finally mature so I was able to sell.....not a lot of loot but takes care of Christmas :banana:

 

Hopefully we you will be able to stick around Chris as it's much more fun to talk about you when you are around...then behind your back lol

 

Shane, you can talk behind my back all you want, but the next time we get together, I'm going to eat a lot of beans beforehand.

 

PS. Don't forget! I always consider the source.

 

Chris

 

 

Ouch...that hurts and I thought I was a special person :banana:

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Houston Investor

Houston Investor

Posted
Posted

Damage or not toned coins can bring a huge premium if it is a highly desired toning like rainbow. Its a function of the attractiveness of the toning and it takes certain customers who appreciate it. On the other hand many prefer coins which are brilliant.

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TJ'S Coins

TJ'S Coins

Posted
Posted

IMO two factors go into the desirability of toned coins. Are they attractive? Are they market acceptable? There are many unattractively toned coins. For me eye appeal is critical, market acceptable a distant second.

 

As Derek noted, there are many collectors who prefer brilliant coins. I have no quarrel with that. Unfortunately I've seen too many lifeless, over dipped and dull "untoned" coins to agree that the "clean" look is the only way to go. Without luster non-toned coins can be as undesirable as any unattractively toned coin. Again, it all comes back to eye appeal.

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