"..any Peace dollar...that has any rainbow colors is artificially toned"..

[leeg]

So they bought it - they didn't buy it back (as in taking it off the market).

 

You're right Mark. Poor terminology on my part.

 

 

Nice example Mike.

[Coindude]

And gorgeous to boot!!

[jerseycat10]

 

In a PCGS holder to boot...

 

Is this your coin? I bid on this on TT and eBay.

[jerseycat10]

My latest pickup:

 

 

[shirohniichan]

My latest pickup:

 

 

I'm not expert on toning, but that one looks AT to me.

 

The toning I've seen on 1921 Peace Dollars looks like they've been dipped in coffee. Is that the most common?

[jerseycat10]

My latest pickup:

 

 

I'm not expert on toning, but that one looks AT to me.

 

The toning I've seen on 1921 Peace Dollars looks like they've been dipped in coffee. Is that the most common?

 

I've only seen 1 rainbow 1921 in the past year, a ngc ms61 example that sold for north of 500 on the bay a month or two back.

 

You are right about the coffee timers. If you go to Heritage, there are usually 3-4 examples.

[mikesartifacts]

 

In a PCGS holder to boot...

 

Is this your coin? I bid on this on TT and eBay.

 

Yes it is, just got it off of eBay about 2 weeks ago, though it was almost thought lost in the mail... did not know it had been offered at TT though. I have several toned Peace dollars with golds/browns/subtle pastels, but none with any real colors like this one. I even submitted a known AT Peace dollar to NGC in December, as it just looks cool, and up to then they have been fairly elusive. I'll post the AT one shortly.

 

Mike

[mikesartifacts]

My latest pickup:

 

 

I like it...

[TonerGuy]

Well here's an interesting situation... rainbow colors on a silver bicentennial 3 coin set from 1976 stored in a card board holder ... graded by PCGS... colors/toning patterns that are very similar to colors/patterns found on toned Peace $

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicentennial-Silver-Set-PCGS-All-Rainbow-Toned-Rare-/260725613151?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item3cb475225f

 

But Peace $ couldnt possibly develop rainbow toning since the 1960s ?

 

Inconsistency is the hob-goblin of bad business practices.

[jerseycat10]

 

Is this your coin? I bid on this on TT and eBay.

 

Yes it is, just got it off of eBay about 2 weeks ago, though it was almost thought lost in the mail... did not know it had been offered at TT though. I have several toned Peace dollars with golds/browns/subtle pastels, but none with any real colors like this one. I even submitted a known AT Peace dollar to NGC in December, as it just looks cool, and up to then they have been fairly elusive. I'll post the AT one shortly.

 

Mike

 

Here is the link of your coin on Teletrade.

 

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2981&lot=1928

 

As you can see, someone bought it on Teletrade to quickly flip it on eBay. They did this with several coins.

[mikesartifacts]

 

Is this your coin? I bid on this on TT and eBay.

 

Yes it is, just got it off of eBay about 2 weeks ago, though it was almost thought lost in the mail... did not know it had been offered at TT though.

 

Mike

 

Here is the link of your coin on Teletrade.

 

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2981&lot=1928

 

As you can see, someone bought it on Teletrade to quickly flip it on eBay. They did this with several coins.

 

Interesting... thanks for the link.

[Coindude]

I guess the nicer pictures sold this coin.

[jerseycat10]

Here's another example:

 

First on TT:

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2997&lot=1698

 

 

Now on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-CH-BU-2-Sided-Rainbow-Colors-Very-Scarce-Killer-/320646029959?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4aa7fe2287

 

 

 

[Coindude]

Just sent this question to the seller, we'll see how he responds.

 

TONED PEACE

 

Wasn't this coin recently sold on teletrade in a pcgs holder as artificially toned?

 

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2997&lot=1698

[jerseycat10]

Likewise, i reported the listing to ebay.

[TonerGuy]

Nice homework on that one. I expect it will hammer at over $500 if Ebay doesnt pull the listing.

 

Gotta like the fact that the Ebay seller doesnt allow returns either.

[James_OldeTowne]

First on TT:

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2997&lot=1698

 

Now on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1923-CH-BU-2-Sided-Rainbow-Colors-Very-Scarce-Killer-/320646029959?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4aa7fe2287

Unbelievably bad AT job.

 

Edited to add:

Just noticed something strange about this seller. He is selling a coin here that is obviously slabbed, but with the slab cropped out, and no mention of it. For that matter, the Peace dollar in question seems to be slabbed as well, with the slab cropped out, yet it's implied to be a raw coin.

 

What kind of deal is that??

[$ilverHawk]

A bad deal.

[kryptonitecomics]

What a scumbag...I knew they were juicing their images and I suspect they are shilling their auctions as well based on this auction alone:

 

 

 

1887 PCGS MS65 Morgan

 

 

but now to see that they are buying coins BB and cracking them out to sell them as NT...that just takes the cake

[okbustchaser]

Nice homework on that one. I expect it will hammer at over $500 if Ebay doesnt pull the listing.

 

Gotta like the fact that the Ebay seller doesnt allow returns either.

 

 

And why should Ebay pull the auction? The coin is exactly what he says it is--a raw Peace dollar with toning. Once a coin has been cracked out of a TPG holder that opinion cannot be considered valid--otherwise their guarantee would still apply. The fact that PCGS at one point in time thought that it was AT is irelevant. PCGS isn't selling the coin--he is.

 

 

[mikesartifacts]

Just sent this question to the seller, we'll see how he responds.

 

TONED PEACE

 

Wasn't this coin recently sold on teletrade in a pcgs holder as artificially toned?

 

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2997&lot=1698

 

Interesting, I was bidding on this coin but dropped out... It looked to me as if the reverse was NT, and by association the obverse would be (but the obv colors looked fishy). Now the PCGS genuine slab confirms this. It's pretty sneaky to crack stuff like this out and offer it up as they did. The implication of the listing was NT, followed by the statement that toned Peace dollars are rare. Obviously they are saying that NT toned Peace dollars are rare. Shady. Glad I did not win.

[kryptonitecomics]

Nice homework on that one. I expect it will hammer at over $500 if Ebay doesnt pull the listing.

 

Gotta like the fact that the Ebay seller doesnt allow returns either.

 

 

And why should Ebay pull the auction? The coin is exactly what he says it is--a raw Peace dollar with toning. Once a coin has been cracked out of a TPG holder that opinion cannot be considered valid--otherwise their guarantee would still apply. The fact that PCGS at one point in time thought that it was AT is irelevant. PCGS isn't selling the coin--he is.

 

 

I would say it's very relevant to the comment about ebay pulling it though I don't see how Ebay would know the coin is a crackout. The bottom line is that it is against ebay rules to sell a coin without full disclosure and in my opinion, cracking out a coin that received a professional opinion that it was AT would fall into that category. Enforcable...probably not but relevant none the less (thumbs u

[okbustchaser]

Cool, then the fact that I have over 200 coins that used to be in top tier slabs is relevant if I should decide to sell them? I was always told that once the coin was removed from the holder all bets were off and that I was an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to crack them out.

 

Can't have it both ways. The grading company's OPINION is either eternally attached to the coin or it isn't. My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be.

[James_OldeTowne]

it is against ebay rules to sell a coin without full disclosure

Is this a new rule on eBay? I was not aware of this change, if it is true. Linky, please?

[TonerGuy]

Nice homework on that one. I expect it will hammer at over $500 if Ebay doesnt pull the listing.

 

Gotta like the fact that the Ebay seller doesnt allow returns either.

 

 

And why should Ebay pull the auction? The coin is exactly what he says it is--a raw Peace dollar with toning. Once a coin has been cracked out of a TPG holder that opinion cannot be considered valid--otherwise their guarantee would still apply. The fact that PCGS at one point in time thought that it was AT is irelevant. PCGS isn't selling the coin--he is.

 

 

Well there's what you can do and should do. Posting that the coin was already submitted and found to be AT by PCGS is what you should do. People will still bid, they just wont bid as high. Or you can hid that fact and collect a nice pay day of $400 or so.

 

As for why Ebay should pull the auction, I never said they should. I dont think Ebay can police all their auctions. I dont expect Ebay to save me from myself, but I know they have on occasion ended auctions that were reported.

[jom]

These types of threads are always interesting. It gives you a lot to think about.

 

However, I also think this NT vs. AT is WAY blown out of proportion. I mean, given the definitions some have stated above (all very well thought out) is it really that important? What is important is whether the coin in question will stay in it's present state after being placed in a neutral environment over a long period of time. Regardless of how the coin got it's color if it stays that way in, say, a PCGS holder for 20 years does it matter whether it was "NT" or "AT"? Chances are that if the coin's color was created in someone's oven overnight the coin would quickly change once put on the market. These are the types of coins the TPG's should be screening out...which is probably what is meant by Market Acceptable in the vast majority of cases.

 

Arbitrary labels like "NT" or "AT" are really beside the point...more important is the stability of a collectors investment/collection. What they bought should stay that way for years to come.

 

jom

[Oldtrader3]

In my opinion David Hall is overreacting to the higher number of rainbow toned Peace dollars which are rainbow toned and are available in the present market. I have been buying and collecting Peace dollars since about 1966. I have put together several set of raw coins in Capital holders as well as several completed sets of slabbed coins running in grade from MS62 (1934-S) to MS66, probably 5 or so sets just in the past 25 years. Presently, I have an assortment of leftover certified Peace dollars duplicates, several of which are richly toned after having been stored in a Capital holder for 25 years. NGC and PCGS both have graded several raw, highly toned, Peace dollars that I still own from having been in Capital holders.

 

During the 45 years that I have collected Peace dollars, I have noticed how scarce they were in rainbow toning, especially back before about 1990 or so. However, there have always been some dates, especially branch mint coins which have always been scarce but available, in rainbow and even neon colors. Some of the later dates like the 1926, 1934 and 1935 D and S coins have always been more available with colorful toning than some earlier dates.

 

Admittedly, there are more rainbow and light neon colored, toned Peace dollars now than there were 20 years ago. However, as someone mentioned these coins are much older now than they were back in the 1970's and 1980's and many more Peace dollars have been removed from bags in bank vaults and have been put into individual collections or even albums where they will tone over 20-30 years even in the slab sometimes (at least many older slabs).

 

IMHO, since PCGS dipped the last highly toned Peace dollar which I sent them, that Hall's post may be his coded message as a result of an opinion that many toned Peace dollars are AT. Probably some are, no doubt, but many are NT. Peace dollars are harder to grade when toned deeply but that is what PCGS gets paid to do. Also, there is no doubt that more Peace dollars used to be dipped than is the present practice with these coins. This was often the case because many of the older bags of Peace dollars were toned flat white or light gold from being stored in mint bags for 50 years. That may also be what Hall is thinking because so many coins in the old days were dipped and then slabbed as brilliant white coins. Plus, I am sure it is likely that some of these Peace dollars have retoned after being dipped 30 years ago.

[James_OldeTowne]

Well there's what you can do and should do. Posting that the coin was already submitted and found to be AT by PCGS is what you should do.

What if you feel in your heart that PCGS was wrong?

 

And, what if the coin was once in a PCGS holder, problem-free, but was deemed AT upon regrade?

[TonerGuy]

Presently, I have an assortment of leftover certified Peace dollars duplicates, several of which are richly toned after having been stored in a Capital holder for 25 years. NGC and PCGS both have graded several raw, highly toned, Peace dollars that I still own from having been in Capital holders.

 

If you ever wish to part with these please place me first on the list to purchase them... I am a strong buyer of nicely toned Peace $....

[Oldtrader3]

I have had most of these dollars left over from a Peace dollar set that I built in a Capital Plastics holder before PCGS (followed closely by NGC) started slabbing coins in the 1970's. I am kind of attached to them and probably will keep them since they did not cost much except for the grading costs to begin with. I just had several of them slabbed about 3-5 years ago and am still fond of them.

 

I do not even remember what I paid for them raw. Most of them are not high grades and were seconds that I put into a Capital Mint Year Set and stuck in a drawer. I sold the 24 piece full set in the 1970's.