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"..any Peace dollar...that has any rainbow colors is artificially toned"..

Started by MarkFeld,

145 posts in this topic

jerseycat10

jerseycat10

Posted
Posted
Presently, I have an assortment of leftover certified Peace dollars duplicates, several of which are richly toned after having been stored in a Capital holder for 25 years. NGC and PCGS both have graded several raw, highly toned, Peace dollars that I still own from having been in Capital holders.

 

If you ever wish to part with these please place me first on the list to purchase them... I am a strong buyer of nicely toned Peace $....

 

You beat me to it! I would also like to have dibs on these coins for my personal collection!

 

I guess i am 2nd.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
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Nice homework on that one. I expect it will hammer at over $500 if Ebay doesnt pull the listing.

 

Gotta like the fact that the Ebay seller doesnt allow returns either.

 

I haven't looked at the listing, but if he misrepresents the item, eBay and Paypal will force his hand.

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
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I don't think David Hall meant that comment to be taken literally. He knows there are some naturally toned Peace Dollars, but his comment certainly intended that toned Peace Dollars are so rare that every one should be scrutinized with regards to the originality of the toning.

 

I have a dramatically toned Peace Dollar in an NGC holder. On most days, I look at it and think that the toning is original and is the result of years spent in a coin folder. But sometimes, I just look at and think to myself, "that toning has to be artificial." The fact is that we will never know. The coin was obviously market acceptable when it was graded, but given my own questions about the originality of the toning, I very much doubt that it would be market acceptable today.

 

PeaceDollar1922NGCMS64Label1.jpg

 

Don't worry though, I am not going to crack it out and test the theory.

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jerseycat10

jerseycat10

Posted
Posted
I don't think David Hall meant that comment to be taken literally. He knows there are some naturally toned Peace Dollars, but his comment certainly intended that toned Peace Dollars are so rare that every one should be scrutinized with regards to the originality of the toning.

 

I have a dramatically toned Peace Dollar in an NGC holder. On most days, I look at it and think that the toning is original and is the result of years spent in a coin folder. But sometimes, I just look at and think to myself, "that toning has to be artificial." The fact is that we will never know. The coin was obviously market acceptable when it was graded, but given my own questions about the originality of the toning, I very much doubt that it would be market acceptable today.

 

PeaceDollar1922NGCMS64Label1.jpg

 

Don't worry though, I am not going to crack it out and test the theory.

 

Paul, sell me that coin and let me tell you if that is market acceptable ;)

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted
I have a dramatically toned Peace Dollar in an NGC holder. On most days, I look at it and think that the toning is original and is the result of years spent in a coin folder. But sometimes, I just look at and think to myself, "that toning has to be artificial." The fact is that we will never know. The coin was obviously market acceptable when it was graded, but given my own questions about the originality of the toning, I very much doubt that it would be market acceptable today

 

I dont think thats true at all. I think your coin is 100% natural. It doesnt have colors that are unknown for Peace $. The russet obverse is fairly common however the reverse is quite special but not so wild that it screams AT. In my opinion that coin would grade (should grade) any day of the week at any TPG.

 

 

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lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
I have a dramatically toned Peace Dollar in an NGC holder. On most days, I look at it and think that the toning is original and is the result of years spent in a coin folder. But sometimes, I just look at and think to myself, "that toning has to be artificial." The fact is that we will never know. The coin was obviously market acceptable when it was graded, but given my own questions about the originality of the toning, I very much doubt that it would be market acceptable today

 

I dont think thats true at all. I think your coin is 100% natural. It doesnt have colors that are unknown for Peace $. The russet obverse is fairly common however the reverse is quite special but not so wild that it screams AT. In my opinion that coin would grade (should grade) any day of the week at any TPG.

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but your unwavering acceptance of the toning on this coin speaks to your overall perception of what qualifies as "market acceptable". I don't think your perception is in line with what NGC currently thinks and that may help explain why every coin in your recent submission came back AT.

 

I am not saying you are wrong and NGC is right. That is pointless and impossible to prove. But it seems obvious that you and NGC are using a different standard with regards to the originality of toning.

 

Now for a coin that would grade (and should grade) any day of the week at any TPG, I present this Peace Dollar.

 

PeaceDollar1923NGCMS662.jpg

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but your unwavering acceptance of the toning on this coin speaks to your overall perception of what qualifies as "market acceptable". I don't think your perception is in line with what NGC currently thinks and that may help explain why every coin in your recent submission came back AT.

 

I am not saying you are wrong and NGC is right. That is pointless and impossible to prove. But it seems obvious that you and NGC are using a different standard with regards to the originality of toning.

 

Now for a coin that would grade (and should grade) any day of the week at any TPG, I present this Peace Dollar.

 

My unwavering acceptance is based on more than a decade of specializing in toned Peace $ and viewing literally thousands of examples. Further, I dont define toning in terms of market acceptability. Either the coin is NT or its not. Thats the problem with the shifting sands of grading. If a coin is NT I shouldnt have to worry about it being MA. The coin should grade. If a grader understood and had enough experience with toned coins they should be able to spot AT from NT with a high percentage of success. No different than telling the difference between a MS64 and an MS65. Once you see it enough you know. This isnt rocket science even though many would like others to believe it is. Its experience, nothing more.

 

And if the coin is a superb AT job and it is so well done that even an experienced grader cant tell the difference then grade the coin. Whats the fear for the TPG ? Is the coin doctor going to show up with proof that he doctored the coin ? Not likely. If the coin turns, buy it back. Thats what insurance is for.

 

You have nice Peace $.

 

 

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Coindude

Coindude

Posted
Posted
Just sent this question to the seller, we'll see how he responds.

 

TONED PEACE

 

Wasn't this coin recently sold on teletrade in a pcgs holder as artificially toned?

 

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2997&lot=1698

Got this response back.

Dear coindude,

 

I don't think so . I bought it the Ms. ANA Show last week-end in a flip. Regards, Linda

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Oldtrader3

Oldtrader3

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Nicely toned Peace dollar, Paul. I have seen several Peace dollars which are that shade of russet and violet and blue but not with the green. Dansco album coins sometimes turn a russet color.

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted
Nicely toned Peace dollar, Paul. I have seen several Peace dollars which are that shade of russet and violet and blue but not with the green. Dansco album coins sometimes turn a russet color.

 

I'm still amazed that people actually get silver coins to tone in Dansco. I've had silver coins in Dansco for years and not even a "peep" of color. However, many of my CN Kennedys went nuts...go figure.

 

jom

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Oldtrader3

Oldtrader3

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Jom, I have had some Peace dollars in Dansco's for 5-6 years and they did not color change one whit, go figure! Others I have seen start to turn after a few months. I know that the age of the album has some bearing on the toning as well. Newer albums tone more.

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jerseycat10

jerseycat10

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AND, to boot, I now have a NEW crop of BU dollars stored in that same album, and it has remained untouched on my library shelf all this time. I have resisted opening it up for eight years. In two more years, I will check the coins and see if they have toned.

 

Let's see 'um, James!

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mikesartifacts

mikesartifacts

Posted
Posted
Just sent this question to the seller, we'll see how he responds.

 

TONED PEACE

 

Wasn't this coin recently sold on teletrade in a pcgs holder as artificially toned?

 

http://teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2997&lot=1698

Got this response back.

Dear coindude,

 

I don't think so . I bought it the Ms. ANA Show last week-end in a flip. Regards, Linda

 

M.P. routinely offers AT coins cracked from TPG holders that were sold at Teletrade, sometimes within 1-2 weeks of auction end. I noticed a pattern some months ago and did some digging and it was easy to determine. There is also an eBay user called l a d s a l e s, in the near geographical vicinity of M.P., who buys coins on eBay, sometimes questionable, and they show up in just a few days on M.P.

 

Great Southern C on ebay also does this, though it it mostly with impaired seated and Barber proofs that come from various auction houses, offered as Gem. It's pretty disgusting.

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RWB

RWB

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I have some original BU Morgans that have been in sealed Mylar flips for 25 years. Several of these have begun to tone where ever they were close to a gap in the seal, or where I had opened the flip for some reason. As the distance from the opening increases the toning decreases -- as if the silver was reacting with sulfur coming in the opening and removing it from the balance of the flip interior.

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bochiman

bochiman

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I sold this one a few years ago to a PCGS forum member who saw a post I did with it (wasn't looking to sell) and he collected Peace Dollars (I don't, I just liked it) and kept after me to sell it.....so I did...for ~$90

 

I, subsequently, found out that toned peace dollars, that have a nice appearance (this wasn't a monster, but my pics don't do it justice), don't just fall off of every tree

 

1923ngcms631784325005peng0.jpg

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RWB

RWB

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My grandmother had a "money tree" in her side yard. The short tree had seed pods that were round, silvery and about the size of a dollar coin. At 8 years old, I was very dissapointed when I was first shown the plant....but some of her gingerbread baked in a wood-fired oven quickly fixed me up.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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Posted
I have a dramatically toned Peace Dollar in an NGC holder. On most days, I look at it and think that the toning is original and is the result of years spent in a coin folder. But sometimes, I just look at and think to myself, "that toning has to be artificial." The fact is that we will never know. The coin was obviously market acceptable when it was graded, but given my own questions about the originality of the toning, I very much doubt that it would be market acceptable today

 

I dont think thats true at all. I think your coin is 100% natural. It doesnt have colors that are unknown for Peace $. The russet obverse is fairly common however the reverse is quite special but not so wild that it screams AT. In my opinion that coin would grade (should grade) any day of the week at any TPG.

I agree entirely. Everything about that fabulous coin screams "original" to me.

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