Hello...new here,but have a question anyway

[Rodger1225-migration]

Hello all...glad to have found this board.I am not sure if this is the correct catagory to ask this,but here goes.I think I just got royally "took".I purchaced a 1882-S Morgan, through an on-line auction,graded by one of the services at MS66.However,when I showed it to two coin dealers near here,my suspicions were confirmed.They both told me that it would barely grade as MS64. All of us are wondering why this service gave it such a high grade.The seller was contacted and said in so many words:"tough luck,I bought and sold it as a MS66,so you are stuck with it".My question is this:should I have it re-graded by one of the larger,and from what I have been told, more reputable firms and then contact the service that mis-graded it? I feel like I just learned a costly lesson about grading services and on-line auction sites.What can I do?Am I just out the $200 difference between MS64 and MS66?

[Hoot]

Hi Rodger and welcome to the boards!

 

First answer these questions: Which auction and which grading service?

 

If the coin is graded by NGS or PCGS, then it is guaranteed for the grade. Send it for appearance review. I'm not sure about ANACS, SEGS or ICG. But you can call them to see if they have a grade guarantee and appearance review process. As for other services, you will likely eat the $200. Be glad it wasn't $2000 or $20000 as a jump from MS64 to 66 can be with some coins.

 

Hoot

 

 

[Dermott]

One more thing (aside from what Hoot stated).

 

Always check the seller's descriptions for any and all return statements. If there isn't one listed (i.e. 14 Day return privelege), then don't do business with that dealer. A reputable dealer would refund the coin were it returned in the holder in which it was sold.

[Rodger1225-migration]

Hello Hoot...thanks for the reply. I was not sure if mentioning services by name was allowed or not.Anyhow,it is in a NTC holder and being new to this stuff,I mistakingly thought that MS66 was MS66. CoinAge magazine,of which I have a new subscription,said that a 1882-S in MS66 was a good investment. So,I began to shop for one. I thought I got a good deal at $255. What a disapointment. The PCGS site lists it at $325. Live and learn I guess. I will never buy another coin not graded by PCGS or NGC. I have been told those two are the most reputable. I feel like contacting NTC and telling them to review their standards. Oh,it was ebay,by the way, and the seller said he does not do refunds based on grade disputes.

[Hoot]

Yeah Rodger, you got taken. Sorry to hear it. If you are new to the high grade material, then DO stick to NGC and PCGS. ANACS will provide you with ample opportunities later, but get your feet under you first. Far down the road, you may buy coins in any slab or raw, but only sight-seen and as you've gathered the skills of grading first. As Dermott said, always check outt the return policy and the seller's feedback.

 

Look on the bright side - you could have done MUCH MUCH worse. We've all been there.

 

Hoot

[gmarguli]

CoinAge magazine,of which I have a new subscription,said that a 1882-S in MS66 was a good investment.

 

Doubtful. It is a very common coin. If it were a good investment then they wouldn't be telling people about it.

 

 

The PCGS site lists it at $325.

 

The PCGS Price Guide is as close to accurate pricing as NTC is to accurate grading. Knock 1/3 off the PCGS price guide on average for retail. Go get a Greysheet if you want more accurate pricing.

 

 

I feel like contacting NTC and telling them to review their standards.

 

That's like saying that you feel like contacting Osama and telling him to review his jihad. NTC is in business to overgrade coins so that they can be sold at inflated prices to newbies like yourself. Them and ACG and PCI are all scumbag grading services that have zero credibility.

 

As for what you should do with the coin, if it is an MS64 it is a $35 coin and not worth resubmitting to a real service.

[Rodger1225-migration]

CoinAge January 2004 for your information.And thanks for your comments possibly driving a "newbee" out of what he thought might be fun.What a way to welcome someone into the hobby.Maybe I know what I should do with the coin after all.Now,if I could find that seller and some K.Y.,he would be in for a rude surprise.

 

That's like saying that you feel like contacting Osama and telling him to review his jihad. NTC is in business to overgrade coins so that they can be sold at inflated prices to newbies like yourself. Them and ACG and PCI are all scumbag grading services that have zero credibility.

 

As for what you should do with the coin, if it is an MS64 it is a $35 coin and not worth resubmitting to a real service.

[Newmismatist]

Roger

 

Welcome to the boards - you've come to the right place for advice, as many here will be very helpful.

 

About your coin: An 82-S Morgan is relatively common - & if you've been told by 2 dealers that it's not MS66 as NTC "graded" it but only at best an MS64, then IF they're reputable dealers, you've over-paid for that coin. Seller says he sells coins & he won't take it back - so, as we used to say in HS, you're SOL. What do we do next?

1. Sell the coin for whatever you can, take your lumps & forget about coin collecting - a $200 lesson not to be repeated. OR

 

2. Keep the coin, learn how to grade coins, learn what resources to use to value coins (greysheet, blue sheet, auction records, coin shows), go to coin shows, look at lots of coins, ask questions and learn from this experience and in a month or 2 you'll begin to understand collecting coins, and you might have a lot of fun, & when you get good at it you might be able to buy a coin for $200 & sell it for a profit. But the key to this whole hobby is learning how to grade, and how to value coins, and if you put some effort into that you'll have a lot of fun for a long time -

2 bits of advice that will be useful fo a s long as you collect coins:

 

1) Buy the book before the coin

 

2) Buy the coin not the plastic - even though NGC & PCGS are reputable 3rd party grading services, if you read the threads on these boards, you'll find out that ALL of the grading services can make mistakes in the grades that they assign to coins, so just because its graded by the best 2 grading services doesn't mean that everyone will agrre with the assigned grade - try and look at several coins (same dates and denominations) with the same grade and select the nicest coin for the grade - do that consistently and you'll put together a nice collection.

 

My advice: Keep that coin for 2 reasons:

1) to remind yourself that there are some scumbags that will cheat you if given the chance, and

2) To remind yourself that before you spend your money on any hobby, that you need to learn what you're doing, who you're buying from and that you have a return previlege in case you don't like what you see when you get it.

 

There are some excellant dealers on these boards (here and on the PCGS forum also) who will help you learn about coins and treat you very fair as they will want you as long-term customer, not a one-shot deal.

 

I hope this doesn't sour you on what is a lot of fun and I might add, a very addictive hobby

 

 

[Leothelion]

CoinAge January 2004 for your information.And thanks for your comments possibly driving a "newbee" out of what he thought might be fun.What a way to welcome someone into the hobby.Maybe I know what I should do with the coin after all.Now,if I could find that seller and some K.Y.,he would be in for a rude surprise.

 

First off, don't be mentioning that K Y stuff around here! You might end up with a few unexpected PM's!

 

Secondly, don't let the truth hit so hard! I've been ripped off and so has just about everyone else. The key is, to learn how to NOT let that happen to you again. Whether or not your feelings got hurt, the responses here, are the cold facts! And they came from a great class of people and collectors. Most here will go out of their way to help others. They get together at coin shows all across the United States to meet and greet each other, to lunch and share the hobby. Having a great deal of patience will eventually erase that $200 loss. You're not going to learn everything you need to know today. The best advice I can offer is, Get to know the seller! Start with small change. Learn to grade coins and never buy without a return policy.

 

Welcome to the boards!

 

Leo

 

 

[RobertB]

Welcome to the boards. Don't feel too bad about being taken. It's kind of like a rite of passage in this field, unfortunately. I think we've all been hit good in the beginning. For some it's discouraging and they leave the field, to others it becomes a challenge to succeed and learn. I hope you choose the latter. I would certainly stick with NGC and PCGS. ANACS ain't too bad, but you've got to learn what to look for with them. That'll come in time.

[Rodger1225-migration]

Thanks to all for much needed info. I will take this as "a lesson learned" and go on trying to get back into the hobby. Wish pictures on auction sites were better though. I have sent a letter to NTC....who knows,they might want to help. Tough to take when $200 means more to me than it does to some sellers. Again,thanks...I will try to read and absorb what I find here.

[ms66quarters]

Rodger,

 

As what has been said on these post's,they are all great advice,as I have learned a great deal from these fine people also.

 

One thing I would like to add is be PATIENT and gain knowledge,as I feel these are 2 (of many) ingredient's to make this a fun hobby..

 

Rob

[michael]

sorry to hear about your less than satisifying purchase and welcome to the boards there arre many on here who wil,give you advise and help you and then with more information you can make better informed decisions for yourself

 

i hope you make all the right ones regarding coins!

 

do not be afraid to ask on here before you pays your money

lots of opinions on here take what you want/like/need? and leave the rest

 

never buy coins as an investment

 

only buy coins for fun to collect

 

with money you can afford to lose in other words discretionaty income

 

only buy coins you know how to grade and can look at and know right away what the coin is worth now and what is positive and negative about the coin

 

in other words specialize specialize specialize

 

ask yourself am i better off in this coin or just leaving the money just left folded in my pocket?

 

only buy great coins special coins with monster eye appeal

 

always buy the coin not the holder

 

never buy from anyone where you cant see the coin up front in person sight seen who does not offer a full 100% no questions back guarantee and who you can guarantee their responsibility intergrity and knowledge if not 100% extremely close to it

 

michael

 

 

[Hoot]

Hey Rodger - Truly, don't be discouraged or take the honesty the wrong way. The brute honesty is sometimes hard to take, but it will hone your skills. I can't tell you how much each of us has had to endure the pain you feel over that dollar. I think that Newmismatists advice was excellent.

 

In the meanwhile, if you are looking for some really outstanding Morgans from an honest person who stands behind his coins, check out BigD5's coins. Wow! he's got a couple of pretty and common date Morgans up right now in 63/64 grades. He cycles through a lot of coins and always has something good up on eBay.

 

It's a nice thing to acquire a few great coins while learning, but wait on the big expenditures until you've got the routine down pat. Stay with the boards and I look forward to your future questions and contributions.

 

Hoot

[CarlWohlforth]

I don't like hearing stories like that. I made a similar mistake buying a raw coin that was misrepresented. (actually probably more than once).

 

I noticed someone else was trying to sell a dozen or more modern coins slabbed MS and PR 70 by NTC, PCI and ACG as if they were the same grade and value as NGC graded coins. The poor guy kept buying more and never knew what was going on until he tried to sell them.

 

I think I need to put a warning on my website. Not many people read my website but if I can warn one person it will be well worth it.

[sanmary]

Rodger,

I hate hearing stories like yours, but it happens. We've all been there once or twice. It is part of the learning process. $200 is a lot of money to most people to just to throw away, but it really isn't much if you've learned $2000 worth of knowledge and lessons. eBay can be a great avenue, but caution must be taken. I've bought probably 400 to 500 coins on eBay and haven't had a real problem in probably 3 years. You stated that the magazine said the 82-s was a good investment. This date/mm is THE MOST COMMON OF ALL MORGAN DOLLARS IN MINT STATE! Granted there are dates that are common in grades up to and including MS65 and very rare in MS66, but this is not one of them. Keep the coin for now until you can accurately grade the coin for yourself. A $1.50 Airtite holder will make this a nice gift for someone someday. I don't know how your finances are, but when I got back into collecting about 10 years ago I just bought a lot of coins from respectable sellers JUST TO SEE a lot of different coins within the serie(s) than interested me and re-sold many of them. I learned more than I can describe from this. You NEED to see a lot of coins to know what is what. I live in the Denver area and this is not a great show town. The internet has enabled me to do this on my own. Please don't get too discouraged. As mentioned prior there are dozens of members here that will gladly help in anyway we can. You can even post a link to the next auction that you are thinking of bidding on and ask for opinions. The world hasn't ended and I hope that we haven't lost a new collector!

[Oldtrader3]

Rodger: Welcome to the boards. I think all of us feel sorry that you were taken on your first coin transaction. Many of us have had similar experiences as we were learning about the hobby. There are many sharks out there as there are in almost any collectable hobby. Others here have given you good advice on some of the pitfalls to avoid.

 

You may want to start small and learn to grade coins (even Morgan dollars) by purchasing less expensive material. There are many Morgans in MS63/64/65 that cost less than $200. Also, many reputable dealers are willing to help and get you started at whatever level of collecting that you wish to undertake. Buy some books on your areas of collecting interest and read them before you start spending serious money.

 

EBay can be a mine-field for inexperienced collectors. Unless you know the dealer or have a trusted recommendation on a dealer, I would avoid EBay until you gain more experience.