Distinguishing Original Mint Red from Dipped Red Copper Coins

[WinstonWare]

“One of my clients, S.B. (a well known collector of these), told me the story of trying to find a gem 1926-S with red surfaces, locating a number of toned pieces, and keeping notes of their surfaces. Later, these pieces were dipped, certified and listed as ‘Full Red’ but he could identify them by tiny marks and other features. Of course, they were full red – but not original”

 

- “The Experts Guide to collecting and investing in rare coins” QDB Page 278

 

So it appears that S.B. was able to distinguish dipped coins from following the majority 1926-S MS pieces and backtracking their identifying characteristics. That doesn’t seem like a realistic proposition today and even if it were, how could one know if they came across a red 1926-S cent for the first time whether it had original mint red or was dipped?

 

Further confusing the issue, at least in my mind, is that there appear to be large and small hoards of large cents and half cents that were kept in a manner that allowed them to preserve their original mint full red color. Bill Jones recently showed us an example which I’ve bumped in the U.S. coin section.

 

I come from a silver background and generally if it’s over 100 years old and it’s white, it’s been dipped. This doesn’t seem to be the case in my initial investigation into copper cents. So my question is, how can we tell if a red copper coin has retained its original red color or if the red color is the result of a dip?

 

As always, any insight is great appreciated. Thanks, Winston

 

[gmarguli]

“One of my clients, S.B. (a well known collector of these), told me the story of trying to find a gem 1926-S with red surfaces, locating a number of toned pieces, and keeping notes of their surfaces. Later, these pieces were dipped, certified and listed as ‘Full Red’ but he could identify them by tiny marks and other features. Of course, they were full red – but not original”

 

What makes S.B. think the coins were original when he first saw them?

 

I saw Coin A one year ago. It had a solid patina over white surfaces. I see that same Coin A today and it has major wild rainbow colors on both sides. While it can fairly accurately be stated that the coin has had work done to it now and is not original, it would NOT BE ACCURATE for me to point to its prior condition and say it was original. It was just in a different state a year ago and I have no proof that the coin was original a year ago.

[coinman1794]

I agree with you Greg. And I will also caution that dipping is not the only way to restore red to copper. Dipping is stripping metal away. Some conservation techniques will remove contaminants and expose original red hidding underneath, without stripping the metal.

[WinstonWare]

“One of my clients, S.B. (a well known collector of these), told me the story of trying to find a gem 1926-S with red surfaces, locating a number of toned pieces, and keeping notes of their surfaces. Later, these pieces were dipped, certified and listed as ‘Full Red’ but he could identify them by tiny marks and other features. Of course, they were full red – but not original”

 

What makes S.B. think the coins were original when he first saw them?

 

I saw Coin A one year ago. It had a solid patina over white surfaces. I see that same Coin A today and it has major wild rainbow colors on both sides. While it can fairly accurately be stated that the coin has had work done to it now and is not original, it would NOT BE ACCURATE for me to point to its prior condition and say it was original. It was just in a different state a year ago and I have no proof that the coin was original a year ago.

 

As I understand this part of the book, S.B. was looking for an original red coin. He was keeping track of other 1926-S coins in case they were messed with and later showed up as red. He would then know that he didn’t need to pursue these messed with coins any further i.e. try to get them in hand to take a closer look. I don’t know that S.B. automatically deduced that they were original because they were brown…

[EZ_E]

I took an ANA coin grading seminar a few years ago. We viewed hundreds of coins during the course. One coin stuck in my mind, a NGC red IHC MS. The instructor pointed out its pinkish tint was indicative of AT.

 

I recently gambled with on a 1938 proof Lincoln cent in a PCI PR67 CAM holder. I lost $120 on that deal. Shame on me. It was dipped and the cameo was a lighting illusion. Here's the dipped proof copper.

[MBA101]

Many old old old time collectors would coat Large Cents (probably Indians as well) with some sort of finish that would protect the copper. This coating could be dissolved in paint thinner I believe, thus is the source of "Red" Early coppers.

 

Also, I think the NGC holders are supposed to be the best at keeping copper red over the long haul.

[Oldtrader3]

I believe that they used plain old shellac to coat copper and then stripped it later. What is the difference between that and using olive oil or pecan oil to protect the copper surface?