Do People NOT Want To Sell Coins On Ebay?

[TomB]

I don't do much on ebay, either buying or selling, and typically don't even scan the auctions. The other night though, I did, and I found a coin that looked interesting to me. It was several thousand dollars and was certified by one of the major third-party certification services. The downside was that the image of the coin was taken with way too little light, was out of focus and wasn't that large. The seller also wrote that all sales were final.

 

I emailed the seller and asked if he could provide better images of the coin since he has a no return policy. He responded that he had a poor digital camera so this was the best he could do. He also said he never had a no return policy until recently when someone returned an NGC graded multi-thousand dollar coin to him. He felt that he shouldn't have to accept a return on a certified coin that had a picture provided. So, I asked if he could scan the coin for me since I would still get a good feel for the look. He couldn't be bothered with that since the coin was in his safe deposit box and he didn't easily have access to a scanner. He told me the coin looked pretty much like the image and that I should be happy with it.

 

What's with some people? Should I be expected to pay several thousand dollars for an essentially sight unseen coin that has an all sales final policy? This was not a coin that a newbie would have bought. Obviously, I didn't do it and wouldn't do it. It's nuts. What do some sellers think when they list coins like this?

[jom]

You know, I've felt EXACTLY the same way a number of times now looking thru Ebay...

 

I found a real nice 11-D half eagle on Ebay a few months back but unfortuantely Bozo the Clown was the seller. A very similar situation: not the greatest picture, no return, too high of postage, wants big premium for the grade etc etc etc.

 

Since the guy lives just south of me in San Diego I told him I'd come down and meet him. He said to just bid on the coin and did (to his credit) offer a return BUT wanted what amounted to a 15% restocking fee (ie the high postage I mention above plus more). I said no and he complained that I person_without_enough_empathyed too much. Geez, the guy wanted a premium for an 11-D HE but won't provide a return? How the hell does he expect to get PQ money from what is essentially a blind sight-unseen auction? Jack-[!@#%^&^]...

 

BTW, the coin has been posted at least 3 more times since. No bids each time. What a shock.

 

jom

[IrishMike]

Tom, they don't think. They want somebody to take the coin off their hands sight unseen. They think some crummy little photo will suffice regardless of the price of the coin. Unfortunately there are buyers on Ebay that buy coins from seller's like you mention. Hey its in a slab ergo it must be ok.

 

Three years ago I wanted to purchase a proof 38 mercury from this lady on Ebay. Finally after many requests she sent me a picture of the coin. I has assumed it must of been a real dog because she was asking way under market for it. I ended up buying the coin and turned it a year later for 60% more than what I paid for it. Had she put a decent photo up to begin with I am sure it would have sold for a great deal more. It was one of the nicest white mercs I have ever seen.

 

Let's face it some sellers are just stupid. I kept looking up her ID to see if she was listing any other coins, but this must have been a shot deal, she was selling garage sale junk instead.

[Wihlborg]

What's with some people? Should I be expected to pay several thousand dollars for an essentially sight unseen coin that has an all sales final policy? This was not a coin that a newbie would have bought. Obviously, I didn't do it and wouldn't do it. It's nuts. What do some sellers think when they list coins like this?

 

 

Tom,

 

I agree. Call me cynical, but whenever I see a no return policy in an eBay auction I

Immediately begin to wonder what might be wrong with the coin that would cause the seller to trade off the possibility of more and higher bids in favor of unloading the coin on someone who will not be able to return it.

 

If the description and image of the coin is accurate, and was good enough for me to bid and win the coin, why would I want to return it? After all, I am not bidding on and winning coins just to waste my time and money having to pay postage both ways and making a trip to the post office.

 

Sure, a seller my have returns on no problem coins from time to time, but IMO if a coin is accurately described the odds are vastly greater that the winning bidder will keep it rather than return it.

 

John

 

[Leothelion]

What do some sellers think when they list coins like this?

 

OH GOD! Tell me about it! But rather, "What do buyers think about sellers who list coins like this?" Scan through some of my "PCGS" can't grade threads and see what I mean. I hate all sellers who think that you are to walk away with whatever they send you. These sellers are jokers. I had one seller tell me that after I've seen the coin that I wouldn't need a return policy so I took his word for it and he was right. Many sellers are very shrewd; they'll be your best friend when you're buying, your worst enemy when you return coins. Don't bid in my auctions they'll tell you....what ! So in the long run, I can't say to my friends and fellow collectors that this is a great seller but instead they'll certainly learn the truth!

If they don't offer a return policy to begin with, how can you trust them. If you need to ask more then once, forget them and pass the word. Don't get caught up in this tyranny usurpation side of certified coins. It's this very kind of thinking that is spreading the mistrust throughout the coin hobby. When you don't educate along the way of dealing or conducting a business so collectors, people don't get screwed then you are doing a great disservice to the numismatic hobby.

 

Gee, I'm glad I got that off my chest for the umpteenth time!

 

Leo

[SilverEagleCoins]

It would seem obvious to me that these sellers are counting on those who buy the plastic and not the coin. Who cares if it's TPG? Even TPGs make mistakes.

[truthteller]

I have noticed this attitude much more in a good coin market than in a bad one. Many dealers who I have purchased before would bend over backwards for a satisfied sale. Now, I have encountered dealers with the "take it or leave it, there's always another buyer" attitude, which really riles me. I tell them, that when the market is crapola, I'll remember this attitude. I haven't bought a coin off ebay in 9 months.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[keithdagen]

I found a rarer type coin, not expensive relatively, but nonetheless hard to find on E-Bay a few months back. E-mailed the seller, because the scan was blurry on all his certified coins. Didn't even get a response. Two months later, coin's still there.

[Oldtrader3]

I have pretty much given up on EBay for anything but cheap coins. A couple bad experiences turned me off. Particularly since there is little or no enforcement by EBay against outlaw Power Sellers.

 

Unless I know the seller or have purchased from them before, I stay away.

[jom]

I've actually never had a problem with Ebay only because I usually only by from seller who give returns OR I happen to know them thru these message boards or from shows.

 

Otherwise, it can be a dangerous place.....

 

jom

[James_OldeTowne]

Dennis and I argue about this all the time. He thinks there should always be a 100% return guarantee. I think it's appropriate for direct sales, but not for eBay, so before you stone me, let me explain why.

 

First of all, bear in mind that our auction listings feature decent quality images, NO reserve, and almost always a starting bid of $1 - a true auction. I suspect most of the scumbags you're pointing out either have reserves, high starts, etc., which make it not a true auction. So, Dennis and I are truly allowing bidders to set their own price, even to the point that WE pay for shipping.

 

So why do I think there should be NO RETURN policy on our ebay auctions?

 

Let's face it, eBay is a dumping ground, and we all know it. When you buy coins at a coin store, you pay the asking price (or near it), because included in the price is overhead cost, such as the rent, insurance, salaries, etc., but also the cost of a return policy. That's why the seller needs a certain amount, to cover the value-added for his coins.

 

In a true auction like ours, again where YOU set the price, there is no value-added. We're not charging you overhead for storing the coins, no overhead for shipping them (remember we have free shipping), or hazard insurance, or store rent, or financing the coin, etc. We are charging you strictly for just the coin. So, we are also NOT CHARGING you the cost of a return policy. So, why would you automatically assume that you should get a return policy included in the price of the coin? You didn't pay for it.

 

To put it in a diffrent perspective, when was the last time you offered to PAY the seller and extra $2 to help defray the cost of offering a return policy?

 

This is just my opinion. To be honest, I myself would skip on auctions that don't have a return policy when I buy on eBay (which is very seldom). But having been on the other side, I understand perfectly the legitimacy of the policy. Basically, you are asking for something you did not pay for. Which is why I think , if you want a return policy, you should buy your coins from a dealer and help defray the overhead required to ensure against returns - which is a slightly bigger price tag.

 

James

[JadeRareCoin]

 

 

I still feel strongly that every seller should ALWAYS have a return privilege on eBay auctions. Anything that I list on eBay has a 7 day return privilege, even though my boss, James, has threatened to fire me for doing so. 99% of the winning bidders keep the coins that they win anyway, so why not have a return policy?

 

 

so before you stone me, let me explain why.

 

 

[Rehit]

i think there is some validity to your no return policy stance.

this would be fine unless the item received was not as portrayed in the auction.

i recently purchased some coins on e-bay in PCI slabs.

they were graded as cameos, but were not.

this was partly thru my ignorance of PCI slabbed coins.

even thought there were fair pictures of the slabs, you would think you could trust a graded coin.

i found this not to be true, and will never purchase another PCI graded coin i do not hold in my hand before purchase.

the seller was kind enough to accept the return of the coins.

on the other hand, why in the world would a local dealer accept returns?

after all you were there in person and made the decision to make a purchase.

i could understand if the coin was mis represented in some way...

[TomB]

While I don't like a no return policy, I can understand the reasons for it. The case of Dennis and James is mighty different than the case that I was writing about, though, so they really don't apply to one another.

 

Those times that I have sold on ebay I have always given a right of return because it is the way that I would want to be treated.

[gmarguli]

I still feel strongly that every seller should ALWAYS have a return privilege on eBay auctions. Anything that I list on eBay has a 7 day return privilege, even though my boss, James, has threatened to fire me for doing so. 99% of the winning bidders keep the coins that they win anyway, so why not have a return policy?

 

While I don't have a return privilege listed in my auctions, I will almost always take a coin back. Almost being the key word.

 

A few of the reasons I don't want to/won't take them back:

 

All my auctions are auction - as in real auctions. Starts at 1c with no reserve and it sells for what it sells for. No shilling, no "adjusting postage" to make up for poor sales, no surprises. EVERY coin has a picture of the obverse and reverse.

 

Probably 1/3 of my auctions contain a picture of the coin and no description other than what is written on the slab. Basically a sight-UNseen sale. People should bid accordingly.

 

In my auctions and my About Me page I URGE people to contact me with questions before bidding. If they fail to do that and there is something simple that they could have asked and didn't, I don't see why I should have to suffer on a return.

 

And quite honestly, many times people get caught up in bidding and pay too much. I've never had anyone want to return a coin that they got a super deal on, so why should I take back coins people over paid for? In the long run it will even out for me. Why should I only accept the bad and allow people to take all the good away from me?

[spy88]

I also have never put in a "return policy" or "guarantee" regarding my auctions.

 

EVERY coin has a picture of the obverse and reverse.

 

This is the key reason why I have NEVER had anyone even ask to return something. Clear pictures and adequate discriptions are all that are needed for a bidder to make an accurate judgement regarding bidding and/or purchasing a coin.

They will see exactly what they are being offered visually and verbally, often citing flaws that may not be apparent in the pic.

 

If more people were to do this, then eBay would be much the safer for buyers and sellers alike.

 

[sanmary]

I've never bought from Greg, but I have checked out his auctions and his "About Me" page and it is, for any semi-literate person it is very easy to understand. In addition, unlike me, he does sell a few coins for less that the cost of grading. eBay is a dumping ground now. A few years ago it wasn't always that way. I do not offer in my descriptions a return policy, but if the circumstances dictate I will indeed accept returns. I personally have never had a coin returned, but I believe that all reputable sellers will also understand that sometimes circumstances dictate this allowance. There are so many sellers out there now that prey on the unknowing it's almost sick. Personally I keep a list of "good" sellers in my favorite sellers file and use them first whenever possible. I do not think anyone needs to offer a return on slabbed coins if the company offers a guarantee on their products. Albeit PCG$ seems to screw some people when this is challenged, but the major grading companies guarantee their grades so if you dispute the grade the new owner of the coin(s) should be covered. In an auction the buyer sets the price, not the seller.

[braddick]

I still feel strongly that every seller should ALWAYS have a return privilege on eBay auctions. Anything that I list on eBay has a 7 day return privilege, even though my boss, James, has threatened to fire me for doing so. 99% of the winning bidders keep the coins that they win anyway, so why not have a return policy?

 

While I don't have a return privilege listed in my auctions, I will almost always take a coin back. Almost being the key word.

 

A few of the reasons I don't want to/won't take them back:

 

All my auctions are auction - as in real auctions. Starts at 1c with no reserve and it sells for what it sells for. No shilling, no "adjusting postage" to make up for poor sales, no surprises. EVERY coin has a picture of the obverse and reverse.

 

Probably 1/3 of my auctions contain a picture of the coin and no description other than what is written on the slab. Basically a sight-UNseen sale. People should bid accordingly.

 

In my auctions and my About Me page I URGE people to contact me with questions before bidding. If they fail to do that and there is something simple that they could have asked and didn't, I don't see why I should have to suffer on a return.

 

And quite honestly, many times people get caught up in bidding and pay too much. I've never had anyone want to return a coin that they got a super deal on, so why should I take back coins people over paid for? In the long run it will even out for me. Why should I only accept the bad and allow people to take all the good away from me?

Greg, I'm in 100% agreement with you. Unless there is an error in the auction somehow, a return should not be honored, although, on the two occasions I've been asked to do so, I have.

[Leothelion]

Remember pepperdoodles! What a scumbag!

 

Leo

[paigow_johnny]

Since the guy lives just south of me in San Diego

Who was the seller jom ?? I'm in San Diego..curious to know who's giving us a bad name...

[papag]

I am also a seller on Ebay that does not give a return policy in my description on the coins that I am selling but as so many have stated I will accept any return from a buyer. I will admit I don't start my auctions at 1c or $1.00 and I have on occassion put a Reserve on my auctions as to the price that I paid for the coin I am now selling. I also will give a scan though of the actual coins that a bidder is buying. Both the obverse and reverse. I figure like others they see what they are bidding on and I try to take a high definition scan so that all is revealed.

 

I have not had any returns on my coins that I have sold. There was one seller that said he received a slab that was cracked and I offered him his money back and to even pay for the postage to send it back as I had no other coin of that type to replace it. He then returned an email and said no he would keep the coin but Thanks for the offer.

 

Along the lines of cost for the dealers there are fees that Ebay does charge such as insertion fees and extra picture fees and final cost fees. I use PayPal and again there are fees that are incured on my sales as well. So I guess we do pay an overhead. Sorry to rant but this is just my opinion.

 

Papag1949 on Ebay.