What happened to the JadeCoin boys?

[gmarguli]

This is how he chose to respond -

 

Who are you?

 

Where is this article being published?

 

Why are you writting this article?

 

What are you trying to accomplish?

 

David Hall

 

 

 

I wonder if DH ran it by his lawyer before refusing to answer?

 

He really should just pay for the mistake. He's just too stupid to realize that it's going to cost him 10X or more by not paying than by paying.

[braddick]

I wrote directly to David Hall explaining to him that this article was going to be published and what it was to be about. I also said that he had so far only stated that there are two sides to every story - I asked him to tell his side of the story so that it might be presented as well in the interest of fairness.

 

This is how he chose to respond -

 

 

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Who are you?

 

Where is this article being published?

 

Why are you writting this article?

 

What are you trying to accomplish?

 

David Hall

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

I answered his questions fairly & honestly and again asked him to relate his side of the story. My repeated enquiries were answered with silence.

 

I am saddened to hear that Mr. Hall seems to have decided to take the fifth on this issue. I happen to agree with him that every story does indeed have two sides, but it has been my experience that when one side refuses to tell their side of the story it is usually because they have something to hide.

 

John

I'm surprised Mr. Hall didn't follow up his, "who are you?" question with, "Who's your daddy?".

[RobertB]

Could Hall maybe, just maybe, be the dark lord, you know Saaaaaaaaaaatan?

[spiny]

If I send in my new coin and it comes back MS666, I think you'll have the answer.

[RobertB]

If I send in my new coin and it comes back MS666, I think you'll have the answer.

 

 

[Wihlborg]

 

Pretty cool spiny, what type of coin is it?

 

John

 

[spiny]

It's a Colombian 1 centavo that I found in a bulk lot of foreign yesterday. I don't know if it's a known variety yet.

[Wihlborg]

Really cool, I knew it was a world coin, but had no idea from where.

 

John

 

[dakra]

Who are you?

 

Where is this article being published?

 

Why are you writting this article?

 

What are you trying to accomplish?

 

David Hall

 

I would have prefered:

 

Dear Mister GDJMSP,

Thank you for contacting me in regards to the Jade Coin issue. A few questions I have for you is: Who are you and what publication are you writing this article for? What is the objective of your article?

 

Generally, transactions with our customers are confidential and for legal reasons we cannot respond to every request we receive. Along with the questions above, please forward us a copy of the article in question. In turn, I will discuss with our legal council whether a response to this matter is appropriate or not.

 

Sincerely Yours,

Davis Haul

 

Rather than.....

Who are you?!??!

What do you want?!?!?!

Who are YOU!?!??

GO A-WAY!?!?

I'd love to go on with the -script (from 'Revenge of the Nerds') but it contains a word.

 

-Dave

[Count_Erfit]

Why people continue to utilize PCGS's services is beyond me.

 

Quite simple. They have found (actually DEVELOPED) a niche undergrading coins and being cavalier about it. When someone wants to get a coin in a slab that will bring more money because it is not graded to ANYONE else's standards, that's the service to choose.

 

It is just not humanly possible to regard a coin held to a higher "standard" as being the "same" value.

 

It all goes back to when the coin market PLUNGED ....but "new standards" kept it from appearing to do so.

 

 

[BushMan]

I'm sure HisRoyalHighness is quite proud of his message boards.

 

What a jerk!

 

What an embarrassment to their boards. Making personal attacks like the following:

 

Boom,

 

You don't amount to a pimple on Jeremy's [!@#%^&^]. As for your auction, the only thing you've "proven" is that you didn't have the balls to crack the coin out and send it to a real grading service.

 

Russ, NCNE

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Count_Erfit, I hope your wrong!

 

Here's why, sit down, I am submitting a batch of coins to PCGS this week! Yep, you heard me right. Of course, they aren't my coins.... they are being submitted for a client. He likes PCGS, and has four ICG and two NGC coins that I think will at least cross and might possibly upgrade.

 

Do you think I'll get a fair shake?

 

James

[Wihlborg]

I am submitting a batch of coins to PCGS this week! Yep, you heard me right. Of course, they aren't my coins.... they are being submitted for a client. He likes PCGS, and has four ICG and two NGC coins that I think will at least cross and might possibly upgrade.

 

Do you think I'll get a fair shake?

 

 

I don't know James, but if I wanted someone to submit coins to PCGS for me, that someone would not be you.

 

John

[BushMan]

Do you think I'll get a fair shake?

 

Ahhhhh, NO!! Does your friend not know of your episodes with HisRoyalHighness?

[gmarguli]

Do you think I'll get a fair shake?

 

James

 

No.

 

You obviously haven't read my stories on my submissions.

 

I fully and honestly believe that your coins will not get a fair shake.

[TonerGuy]

Do you think I'll get a fair shake?

 

Let's just say hypothetically, PCGS kept a list of people that they didn't care for. And let's say hypothetically this list happened to be in/near/accessible to the grading room. And let's say hypothetically, your coins could be identified while in the grading room and lastly, let's just for argument's sake assume for a moment that your name was on that list.

 

Do you think you would get a fair-shake?

 

Legalese & Declarations....

 

Of course, this is all hypothetical and I have no real or perceived knowledge of what may or may not occur at PCGS. And I am writing this for entertainment purposes only and am not stating for a fact any of the above statements.

 

I state with all true conviction based upon my own personal knowledge-- "PCGS does not keep lists of unfavored submittors nor can they identify those persons coins and even if they did and could, favoritism would never come into play in deciding grades for submitted coins."

 

Though if I am incorrect I retain the right to change my opinion at any time.

 

Michael

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

I agree with you. Fortunately, I am going to submit the coins under someone else's name.....

 

How does "Q David Bowers" sound?

 

James

[MAULEMALL]

I agree with you. Fortunately, I am going to submit the coins under someone else's name.....

 

How does "Q David Bowers" sound?

 

James

Sounds like you want to [!@#%^&^] your Money away

[GDJMSP]

As stated - Part II

 

 

[Wihlborg]

Excellent article GDJMSP!

 

John

[gmarguli]

Interesting story.

 

Maybe I should have you write a story about how PCGS just recently revoked my membership in their Collectors Club over a month before it was due to expire.

 

I'm sure it's just an oversight, since David Hall would never do something like this.

 

Now, which government agency handles consumer fraud.....

[dakra]

Thanks for the update! I was hoping to hear something like a response from David Hall or that Jade got some satisfaction from the deal.

 

The unfortunate part of this whole thing is that 3rd party grading was suppose to take away some of the hanky panky going on in the coin industry... which it did but it has also brought into play a new type of corruption.

 

-Dave

[truthteller]

Thanks for the update.

 

I am still amazed that PCGS has not corrected this situation. I do read time to time on the PCGS message boards, how unsatisfied many PCGS collectors are with customer service, quality of product and turnaround times. I recently talked to a major dealer, who stated to me that PCGS allows more mistakes and damaged coins to get through the grading process than does NGC. He went on to tell me that he sees many more problem coins in PCGS holders than NGC. I have also noticed this. In fact, many of the sight unseen bids for PCGS coins have since disappeared over the last 3 months. So the sight unseen market appears to no longer support the PCGS product. The first step in a failure of a company is loss of dealer and collector support. Will it only be time before the PCGS demise? Probably. How long? Just long enough for CU stockholders to unload their stock. Enron, Worldcom, CU, essentially all the same. just varying degrees.

 

 

TRUTH

[MikeKing]

Well, from what I've read so far, it seems the president of pcgs believes himself and pcgs to be invulnerable.

 

It's really a shame.

 

This story from the very beginning stinks, and it's all pretty sleazy. Its really a poor reflection on the industry. I really don't understand how all these people are still on the pcgs board and go on and on like nothing ever happened when the very president of the firm they so ardently support not only didn't give jade coin the reimbursement that they so rightfully deserve, but if the heresay is true about what he's said, behaves in a pretty pathetic and disgusting fashion. Truly low life. How could anyone support an organization headed by someone like that?

 

 

WHATS WRONG WITH THESE GUYS ??

 

WHAT THE XXX IS GOING ON HERE???

 

Is the love of money (not collecitble but greed kind) so strong that scum like this thinks he can go on????

 

 

 

 

 

[Dry]

I remember just a few years ago when the general perception was that PCGS was the saviour to the coin industry. I freely paid the premium for the PCGS slab due to the percieved integrity of the company. It is my opinion that PCGS started losing this perception about the time when Rick left the company. I realize that when you are "buying the coin and not the holder" integrity of the company that slabbed the coin is meaningless to some. But, I do think about this when purchasing a coin in a slab.

 

This last episode hurt PCGS in two extremely damaging ways. First, the president of the company is now perceived as a total ahole, a person you would never want to deal with. And second, the authenticity of the product was proven to be false. All PCGS can do now is practice damage control (try to prevent the spread of this story).

IMO

[GDJMSP]

All PCGS can do now is practice damage control (try to prevent the spread of this story).

IMO

 

 

Well there's little chance of that happening. For the past 2 months now I have been receiving emails from others who have been through a very similar scenario as Jade Coin with PCGS. We already know about the 1662 Oak Tree twopence that has been graded by PCGS as AU55 with the pedigree notation on the slab as being from the Garrett collection - that was not from the Garrett collection. And I'm sad to say there are others as I am finding out.

 

This stroy is spreading. And it spreading in the worst way - word of mouth. The confidence that many once had in PCGS is being eroded on a daily basis - one collector at a time. I personally know of many who have sworn to never submit another coin to PCGS. What's worse - they have sworn to never buy another coin in a PCGS slab. More than a few of them are even sending in the coins they own in PCGS slabs to be crossed over. They want nothing else to do with PCGS.

 

But perhaps the worst part of all this is that the reputation of the grading industry as a whole is being damaged. The idea that grading companies are not deserving of the public's trust and confidence is spilling over because of incidents like these. Many collectors paint all the grading companies with the same brush - whether they deserve it or not.

 

 

 

 

[braddick]

In some ways, Collectors have short term memories. Although PCGS has refused to honor this $2,500.00 debacle, there are many on the PCGS side that believe PCGS will step up and purchase back the $40,000.00+ "PR70DCAM" 1963 Lincoln mistake.

[gmarguli]

In some ways, Collectors have short term memories. Although PCGS has refused to honor this $2,500.00 debacle, there are many on the PCGS side that believe PCGS will step up and purchase back the $40,000.00+ "PR70DCAM" 1963 Lincoln mistake.

 

They are going to have to outbid me for it!

[Wihlborg]

Quote:

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In some ways, Collectors have short term memories. Although PCGS has refused to honor this $2,500.00 debacle, there are many on the PCGS side that believe PCGS will step up and purchase back the $40,000.00+ "PR70DCAM" 1963 Lincoln mistake.

 

 

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They are going to have to outbid me for it!

 

 

John

[TonerGuy]

there are many on the PCGS side that believe PCGS will step up and purchase back the $40,000.00+ "PR70DCAM" 1963 Lincoln mistake.

 

I doubt this highly. If it were resubmitted under the guaranty I doubt if PCGS would step up to the plate on this coin @ this monetary level. I'm sure they would try to argue that the true value would be based upon a mean of the prices paid for all PR70DCAM Lincoln Memorials.

 

As for the JadeCoin issue being epidemic, this is what I would consider, legally speaking, more problematic for PCGS then overgraded coins. Grading is subjective, and hence defendable. Whether a coin is or not of a certain pedigree is more factual and much harder to defend in court. This cuts to the issue of due diligence on PCGS's part. It goes to show, along with the fingerprints, foreign matter in the slabs and turnaround times that QC is extremely lacking over there.

 

And as I have stated before, the PCGS does in fact guaranty pedigree. It would be no different if the coin were counterfeit and in a PCGS slab.

 

Michael