Current Market Disturbing - Am I giving them away?

[Houston Investor]

I am becoming more disturbed by the current market. The numismatic coins and currency simply are not moving. I have a large inventory of modern world gold and have been selling mod gold commems in 69 at bid + 10%. This morning over coffee based on email offers from customers I decided to let a 2006 $ $5 old SF mint in NGC 69 UC go for $225 (it melts for $217) and a MS 69 of the same issue go for $250. I wonder if I am giving them away too cheap or is gold going to fall further? Not to worry, I still have many more in inventory. But the fact the other stuff is not moving well seems to reflect the economy.

 

On the enthusiastic side I have a show this weekend so maybe some nice stuff will walk up at my price. My bank acct has been increasing though with my income from other sources, etc. but I am skeptical of coins - on the sell side (show pricing) on numismatic coins I am mainlly at CW Trends less 10% and will buy slabs (I can use for inventory) at full certified bid. These two play calls on buy / sell are what I call "fun and games" mode. I wonder if paying them full certified bid is not too generous , but will there be any takers?

[gmarguli]

My recent results have been very strong. Perhaps only generic stuff is getting hit? Also, the SF commems and most modern commens have limited markets. They're hot early on and then generally die.

[MunkyMan95]

Will you sell me a SF Mint $5 gold for $225?

[World Colonial]

I do not follow the issues you are describing, but given the current state of the economy and what I perceive to be the limited or weak collector base for this type of material, I would be surprised if your experience WAS NOT normal.

 

Of all the market segements, the ones that I would expect to show the greatest weakness would be US modern slabbed material of all types. With these coins, I would expect that the vast majority would either be a 69 or a 70 and since there is no practical difference in eye appeal between the two, I do not see any reason for either of them to sell for much if any premium over bullion unless the mintage is relatively low like the 1997 Jackie Robinson

 

I have only bought US commemorative gold once. It was six 1987 $5 Constitution coins on Teletrade and I paid LESS than melt for them. I only bought them because i wanted to own gold and it was the cheapest way to buy it. They were 68's and 69's. When I finally sold them on eBay afew years ago, I STILL sold them for LESS than melt though I made some money on them because gold was higher.

 

In the future, I would not buy this type of coin again and I would not advice anyone else to either if they are thinking of buying it for the reason I did. I'd much rather have actual bullion coins like AGE.

[just-john]

is the show in arizona ?

[Jeffrey Cardona]

As with everything that is purchased for investment reasons only....there is a chance you will lose out on your investment.

 

I myself do collect modern commemoratives for fun and not for profit. And I have to agree with you that the prices seem to be down. For people trying to sell to make money off them...not so good. But for me, I have been able to pick up a few PF70s that I did not have at great prices.

[DirtyGoldMan]

When you are visibly buying and selling in the same market, ebay, it is hard to see how you can make a profit.

 

For example, you bought this Israeli gold coin for about melt, add $95 and immediately relist it in the same marketplace and expect it to sell?

 

Or the Walker half in 65 for which you paid $126. How much value are you adding by relisting it for $160 a week or two later ?

[Houston Investor]

When you are visibly buying and selling in the same market, ebay, it is hard to see how you can make a profit.

 

For example, you bought this Israeli gold coin for about melt, add $95 and immediately relist it in the same marketplace and expect it to sell?

 

Or the Walker half in 65 for which you paid $126. How much value are you adding by relisting it for $160 a week or two later ?

 

Ebay is not the only market I have a business presence so no I dont necessarily expect to sell something a week later like the Israel coin (but it has happened). The Israel coin - its a super buy at my price considering its low mintage and high grade, a beautiful piece for the MWG collector. Can't believe the seller gave it away at melt. Falling gold prices have not helped on the MWG sales for sure . One thing I have noticed is that you are quite an astute data miner (I have also noticed your posts about me ATS, and this many months if not over a year since the termination of my posting there) - I thought data mining wasn't permissible here but I will report your post and see if the mods can research this issue for me futher. I resent your linking my site in here without my permission and this is the second complaint against you I have filed with the mods with this issue in less than a week.

 

[Houston Investor]

is the show in arizona ?

 

No

[DirtyGoldMan]

If you did not want to be associated with your ebay auctions, you probably should not have added them to your signature line. I saved it to my favorites list a while back, and I may have even purchased a coin from you once. At any rate, ebay is not your site; it is a public site.

 

Most seasoned ebay sellers have separate buying and selling accounts, so that folks cannot make the easy connections I made. Eventually, even these connections can often be revealed with a little work.

 

Tracing the passage of coins from one party to another is one of the ways I enjoy numismatics, be it on ebay, via Heritage or other traditional auctions, in and out of dealer inventories, etc. Is this data mining? I guess so, but lots of folks enjoy this, as well. My friend ATS had an interesting thread on it last week.

 

Tracking coins from one place to the next allows one to reconnect coins to lost pedigrees.

[Houston Investor]

My recent results have been very strong. Perhaps only generic stuff is getting hit? Also, the SF commems and most modern commens have limited markets. They're hot early on and then generally die.

 

Yes I agree. It has always amazed me how the current price structure can allow the retail floor for US Mint procucts to drop below the original mint offering price. However, the Capitol Visitor Center Unc $5 was a big winner.

 

I have always maintained (in vain) the retail floor for USM issues should not be dropped below the original mint offering price for items the mint is no longer issueing. After all the USM is not making them anymore.

[Houston Investor]

If you did not want to be associated with your ebay auctions, you probably should not have added them to your signature line. I saved it to my favorites list a while back, and I may have even purchased a coin from you once. At any rate, ebay is not your site; it is a public site.

 

Most seasoned ebay sellers have separate buying and selling accounts, so that folks cannot make the easy connections I made. Eventually, even these connections can often be revealed with a little work.

 

Tracing the passage of coins from one party to another is one of the ways I enjoy numismatics, be it on ebay, via Heritage or other traditional auctions, in and out of dealer inventories, etc. Is this data mining? I guess so, but lots of folks enjoy this, as well. My friend ATS had an interesting thread on it last week.

 

Tracking coins from one place to the next allows one to reconnect coins to lost pedigrees.

 

As I understand it, data mining is against the policies of this forum so it is likely I am not the only one who would have an issue or move against you on this.

 

I would much rather see links to your Southern Gold Registry Collection (somewhere I lost this link) which is very impressive than some of my Hail Mary projects on the Bay. Due to the increased costs of doing business there I am seriously considering shutting it down anyway and setting up at another site. I appreciate your business if you did happen to purchase something from me - perhaps your the guy who posted in the FB "don't be afraid to do business with this guy." I sorta got a kick out of that thinking it must have been someone ATS. I have tried to take a softer approach here than let my mean streak run wild like it did ATS. I can understand it if some of you from ATS are major PO'd with me. Bash me if you will, but I am going to resist any urge to engage in any further verbal sparring with any of you. I will consider your observation and see if it is possible for me to procure a separate ebay buying account.

[DirtyGoldMan]

I will consider your observation and see if it is possible for me to procure a separate ebay buying account.

 

In all candor, I think it would be an excellent idea. As a coin buyer, nothing turns me off more than easily discovering the source of the coin being offered and seeing it was purchased in a public auction last week for "X" and now being offered publicly for "X plus 50%". Any potential ebay buyer can discover what I discovered in about 60 seconds.

 

I was turned on to this when I almost bought the Israeli gold coin on ebay for melt and then witnessed it reappear on ebay, in your auctions, for substantially more. It did not take Sherlock Holmes to discover other similar examples...just a few clicks on feedback. If I can do it, anyone else can, too, and this could be turning off ebay shoppers. Seeing as the point of your thread was that your sales were down, it did not seem that this was especially offensive or out-of-bounds.

[Conder101]

In all candor, I think it would be an excellent idea. As a coin buyer, nothing turns me off more than easily discovering the source of the coin being offered and seeing it was purchased in a public auction last week for "X" and now being offered publicly for "X plus 50%". Any potential ebay buyer can discover what I discovered in about 60 seconds.

If it bothers you it's your own fault because you could have bought it yourself for less the previous week. What somebody paid fr a coin in the past is of little interest to me. More important is what it will cost me today.

[DirtyGoldMan]

In all candor, I think it would be an excellent idea. As a coin buyer, nothing turns me off more than easily discovering the source of the coin being offered and seeing it was purchased in a public auction last week for "X" and now being offered publicly for "X plus 50%". Any potential ebay buyer can discover what I discovered in about 60 seconds.

If it bothers you it's your own fault because you could have bought it yourself for less the previous week. What somebody paid fr a coin in the past is of little interest to me. More important is what it will cost me today.

 

Often, what the coin sold for one week ago in a public auction is important in establishing its value one week later.

[Houston Investor]

I will consider your observation and see if it is possible for me to procure a separate ebay buying account.

 

In all candor, I think it would be an excellent idea. As a coin buyer, nothing turns me off more than easily discovering the source of the coin being offered and seeing it was purchased in a public auction last week for "X" and now being offered publicly for "X plus 50%". Any potential ebay buyer can discover what I discovered in about 60 seconds.

 

I was turned on to this when I almost bought the Israeli gold coin on ebay for melt and then witnessed it reappear on ebay, in your auctions, for substantially more. It did not take Sherlock Holmes to discover other similar examples...just a few clicks on feedback. If I can do it, anyone else can, too, and this could be turning off ebay shoppers. Seeing as the point of your thread was that your sales were down, it did not seem that this was especially offensive or out-of-bounds.

 

I did not see your bid in researching the bid history of this coin - so if you did not bid thats your lost opportunity. My direct cost for the coin $240 + applied overhead of 24% (based on my YTD actuals) = $297.60 just to break even. In addition, I have just reduced it from $325 to $295 so if anything it is underpriced. If you believe some of these MGW issues with a low mintage of 2000 pieces like my Israeli coin are only worth melt in NGC PF 69 UC, well I wish you the best of luck in finding one. I recently offered it at $262 to a guy at a show last weekend (no ebay fees to cover there) and his remark was "what is greysheet." I told him "there is no greysheet on world coins and in addition I am not a wholesaler." He then left my table - what I have found is that when their whiney BS starts (after I have quoted them a price), its time for them to leave (my table). Money talks, BS walks. I believe many who demean dealers or a coin deal don't have any money anyway. The people who have money either buy the coin because it is something they want or at least know to lay their money on the table and make a counter offer the dealer will have a tough time refusing.

 

However, I do agree with you on my need for a buyer account (if they allow that with their new policies and all) but doesen't purchase history become non researchable after 60 days or so anyway? I will check it out. It is sad that as a paying customer there, that my buying activity is so easily available for anyone to view, especially someone who would then shamelessly use it in a forum for rant / sport.

[EZ_E]

That's a lot of hustle just to make a few bucks and then to get grief over it. The coin game is a rough business. I don't see how most dealers can stay ahead of the game.