Dealers at a local show were not happy today

[IrishMike]

I attended the monthly show in South Bend today and took along one of the NCS slabbed IHC's that I recently purchased from Heritage, an 1874, improperly cleaned obverse. Link The coin is much brighter and has more luster than the Heritage picture and has a sharp strike. The reaction was pretty unanimous, they don't like the service.The fear was that collectors might learn how to tell copper is cleaned. There were a lot of why don't you snap, crackle and pop it. Most of them though they wouldn't admit it, could not find the cleaning, there is a couple of spots left of her eyes. Don't expect to see these slabs anytime soon at your local dealer.

[Tradedollarnut]

I very much like the service. I have three coins already in their slabs - rare varieties all. One day I'll probably get my chopmark set slabbed as well.

[IrishMike]

I have a couple of Trade Dollars I am quite certain wouldn't slab, due to light cleaning, I am considering sending them in. Not much there is value but they are each a hundred years older then my two daughter's birthdays and I would like to pass them on and give them at presents to them. I think having them slabbed would be a good idea.

[jtryka]

What do NCS slabs look like? I've never seen one.

[Tradedollarnut]

Like an NGC slab but with a clear insert. The label is different, also.

[Hoot]

I like the service quite a bit for its authentication and clear statement of the problem. I also like net graded ANACS coins for the same reason. The dealers you mention sound dishonest. I was sold a red MS64 1931-S Lincoln cent that had just a spot that was cleaned. I missed the cleaned spot and sent it to NGC. It did not grade with NGC. I tried to send it back to the dealer who then claimed adamantly that the coin had no such spot on it and was a perfect coin. Would he give me my money back? No. (Excelsior Coins, by the way, who advertises in Coin World). He knew I did not touch the coin but would not stand behind his statements about it in the least.

 

I'd love to learn more about cleaned copper without having to learn the hard way.

 

Hoot

[michael]

this weeks coin world as did last weeks coin world had a full page article with a pictured slab of the ncs

slab with its net grade on the holder

 

i think something like wiped details net unc. but guaranteed as a fully genuine coin

 

or something like that

 

sincerely michael

 

[Tradedollarnut]

NCS does NOT net grade the coin. On my coin they state "AU details, improperly cleaned". Only ANACS assigns the net grade.

[IrishMike]

The interesting statement on the slab is this: Guaranteed authentic only detail grade does not determine value.

[GDJMSP]

Hoot -

 

I have to wonder. You say that you missed the cleaned spot yourself. Is it not possible that the dealer who sold you coin missed it as well ? They are after all only humans. Perhaps the spot was cleaned by the person who sold it to them. Of course it is also possible that they noticed the spot - cleaned it - and sold the coin - then denied everything.

 

The reason I mention this is because I have heard countless stories just like yours. And inevitably the most recent seller is the one who gets blamed. This blame is probably justly placed much of the time. But there are bound to be times when it is not. This is where a relationship with a dealer comes into play.

 

Just as you the buyer would expect your trusted dealer not to sell you cleaned or altered coins. The dealer should also trust you as his valued client to be completely honest and accept your story as such should something like what you described happens. If the dealer does not accept your story - and responds in a manner such as you described - then it would be wise to look for a new dealer.

 

Just wanted to voice my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[EVillageProwler]

I find that the majority of the shops that sell ``higher value'' raw coins are those that are typically more lax in their regard for light cleaning.

 

(By ``higher value,'' I'm referring to those coins whose value would have made them reasonable candidates for slabbing.)

 

These dealers tend to focus more on eye appeal or rarity, or they're simply deliberately peddling in damaged goods to try to get a higher return.

 

I think it is easy to guage which dealer falls into the ``damaged goods'' category simply by asking them questions about their inventory and seeing how forthcoming they are in response.

 

I think if you ask them ``I'm not too good with copper, and I'm concerned about this coin being bodybagged because it's raw,'' the dealer should not take offense with this question and try to address why he did not slab it himself.

 

Julian Leidman is an excellent example of someone who's very honest with me. He sells lots of expensive raw coins. His focus is mainly on rarity and eye appeal. Anyway, I'd ask him about his raw coins that I'm eying, and he'd honestly tell me whether he thinks they'd slab or not as well as what he thinks *might* be wrong with the coins.

 

He also doesn't mind if I take the coin to another dealer and asking for a second opinion. He feels that dealers who dislike that tend to have something to hide. In any case, if you ask the questions nicely, the dealer should not get offended.

 

EVP

 

[Hoot]

GDJMSP - I agree with your assessment in many regards. In fact, I even said to the dealer that I doubted that they were the ones responsible for the cleaning. Their reply? "Well, if we missed that I doubt that it was really cleaned. Afterall, NGC may be the ones mistaken here; they've gotten more than one thing wrong for us." It was that line of bull combined with the fact that they would not simply give me my money back that made it impossible for me to not feel scammed, whether they did the cleaning or not.

 

I deal locally with an incredibly honest dealer - Dan Wahr and Dale Williams of Williams Gallery/Collector USA. They strictly guarantee their coins. If the same thing had happened with them, their policy dictates that they would have both refunded my money AND paid me for the cost of shipping the coin to and from NGC and the grading fees. I guess I am simply use to being treated very well.

 

Hoot