Do you think it is a bad thing .. In this economy ...

[jgrinz]

I am here filling out my sons FAFSA and got to thinking about some of the entries I am filling in ...

 

Having just reconciled my coins for insurance purposes along with just getting my taxes done I realized that ....

 

1/3 of my net worth is in coins ??

 

I thought it interesting ... is this similar to other people or is it me being not diverse enough ....

 

[WinstonWare]

Roughly I have:

3/8ths in my 403b - like a 401k

3/8ths in my employers pension plan

1/8ths in my coins

1/8ths in cash

-1/8ths in my house <-- that last part was a joke (i hope)

[michael]

it is actually a good thing in this economy to have cash as we are in a heavy deflationary mode

 

then really good coins that are

 

a) popular

b) rare

c) way above average eye appeal

d) pq for the grade if in a ngc/pcgs holder

e) with extraspecial extraordinary qualities about the coin-- this might a little pertain to c)

f) is an original unmolested coin

g) a proven track record

h) not tripled in the last 5 years

i) a coin which is sexy with a great history story about it

j) something that is a great value and opportunity-- subjective here even moreso than all of the above

 

no i cant tell you which coins they are but show me a coin and i can tell you if it meets or exceeds all of the above criteria but if it does then it is a really good coin to have in these times as a great hedge with a fundemential reason to rise in value

barring any serious catrostopic events in the world

 

 

the next best thing is gold but i do think gold will be at 500 usd or there abouts by years end i guess time will tell

 

good luck and i hope all your picks are winners

 

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

...I realized that ....

 

1/3 of my net worth is in coins ??

 

Do you think it is a bad thing .. In this economy ...

I think it's probably a bad thing in any economy.

[Mark T]

1/3 seems like a lot unless you are debt free and have a net worth over a Million dollars.

I think my coins are maybe 3 % of my net worth , but then I just started to collect again only a year ago after a long vacation :-}

 

[fishfinder]

yes

[x2rider]

Yeah I would have to say over a third .

 

But even though things are tight you still have to give yourself a little pleasure . The thrill of completing a set or just getting a nice coin to fill that hole .

 

Recession has a lot to do with state of mind .

 

Cheers

[jgrinz]

I think I got scared 5- 6 years back when the market collapsed the first time and I lost 30k - Then I moved a lot of my assets into hard assets - Coins ( 75% gold and Silver ) and Real Estate - House / Commercial Property and Raw land.

 

I am more like

 

30 % Coins/gold/silver

50 % Real Estate

20% Cash or Equivelents

 

Makes you think when you make out a networth calculation...

 

PS - I actually have a "ART" asset with both pictures I bought Chris M ( His Moms 2 Paintings I bought )

 

[James_OldeTowne]

I am here filling out my sons FAFSA and got to thinking about some of the entries I am filling in ...

 

Having just reconciled my coins for insurance purposes along with just getting my taxes done I realized that ....

 

1/3 of my net worth is in coins ??

Please don't take this as negative commentary - but this sounds like seriously dangerous ground to be on if you are financially responsible for anyone else other than yourself. It you are single and on your own (which I believe to be the case), then that is better, but I can't think of any time when I would want 33% of my net assets tied up in coins.

 

I had never really considered the question before, but would guess that no more than three percent of my net worth is in coins.

[thebeav]

I think it's maybe a bad thing if your net worth is rather small.

If you're worth substantial scoots, then I think it matters not.

 

Paul

[Schatzy]

Mike....thank you for bring up the topic....I have never sat down and thought of this.

I was single and in the Navy when I started buying coins. I didn't have any bills or

any expenses. All I needed was drinking money and I bought whatever I wanted.

I can tell you that my TSP (401k) has less money then I have in coins. I did put

the max into my TSP every year while on active duty.

 

Maybe I need to stop buying so many coins!!

[physics-fan3.14]

Well, Quicken tells me my total net worth is currently considerably negative. Of my assets, however, my coins are probably around 20%. This percentage is decreasing as I am contributing to 401k, Roth IRA, non-retirement accounts, savings accounts, and a few other things.

 

I think a good target for me is roughly 10-15% in coins. This target is different for everyone, and depends on your style and philosophy of investing. To me, my collection is more for my enjoyment and the fact that its a considerable part of my assets is secondary. To some people, investing in coins is a primary reason for holding them.

[jgrinz]

My Serious OCD and 'other issues' had a lot to do with my current allocation in coins but that has been "repaired" and with kids starting college I think I need to redistribute to make some more funds more liquid.

 

It Is really amazing how much coinage I did amass that has already been liquidated in the past year so much so that I had to declare a lot of it in this years taxes. I did have the intuitiveness to at least alert my tax accountant that there woud be 'excessive income' not calculated in my quarterly estimates and we adjusted accordingly. I owe $54 to the fed

 

I was a sick puppy and have a very patient wife what can I say.

 

 

 

[jgrinz]

Please don't take this as negative commentary - but this sounds like seriously dangerous ground to be on if you are financially responsible for anyone else other than yourself. It you are single and on your own (which I believe to be the case), then that is better, but I can't think of any time when I would want 33% of my net assets tied up in coins.

 

Nope married with two kids - One going to college soon hence the FASFA

 

This was not done purposely but aimlessly done as previously described.

 

I am not in monitary trouble as the raw land is paid for, the commercial property my business operates on is paid for and have no CC debt.

 

I was curious as to others allocation of assets.

 

I am meeting with a financial advisor shortly to decide the change in allocation to more support the up coming college years for both my children.

 

I can see my Proof sets probably leaving their home ( Except the 1883) but I have fine tuned my collecting interests this pst year anyway so it will be just another hatchet that has to fall.

 

Thanks for listening and thanks for your input - NOTHING is taken negatively as I had asked for opinions.

 

[RI AL]

Of course the ratios have changed in the past year or so...and we have our next financial review with our planner in a few weeks. Things will change I expect. Right now, If I had to figure out an allocation it would be REAL rough. Hopefully when the world returns to normal, the numbers will change for the better with a heavier percentage in retirement.

 

Anyway, here's my quicky estimate:

 

retirement, 35%

house, 32.5%

Coins and collectibles, 7%

cash, 17%

other, cars, furnishings, pianos, a few butt ugly antiques, 8%

debt, less than 1%

 

Retirement used to be a much higher percentage...but I'm an older fart and that's the way it's supposed to be I guess. Debt...I HATE it...and own everything free and clear except for my wife's new Corolla, 3 years at 0% interest. Didn't make sense to pay it off early.

 

If I were 25 and had it all to do over again, I would put every cent I could afford into retirement and...gasp...the stock market. I wish that during our 30 years of putting money away in 403b 457 and Roth IRA's, we had the buying opportunities that are out there today!!! Can't put as much away now because of my unexpected retirement 2 years ago. But, what we CAN put into the market, that's where it's going! Dollar cost averaging is a wonderful thing...especially when things improve in the economy and people could have bought dirt cheap during this rough patch!!!

 

RI AL

[dean1345]

Al do you mean an ole fart like this.

[RI AL]

Where'd you get my picture, dean1234???

[Houston Investor]

I think its a matter of whether your a wheeler dealer or not and I would say the bullion value portion of your rare coin portfolio is important.

 

My rare coin inventory is a large portion of my networth but I am actively churning it irregardless of market conditions to take advantage of opportunities for high sells and low buys. A significant portion is in bullion related material. So its principal advantage to me is control. My only downside cost at a show is the table fee and any other expenses associated with the show. I think in this economy there will be more opportunities to buy low rather than sell high in rare coins.

[James_OldeTowne]

Some great points were brought up here.

 

If you have considerable wealth, then certainly it isn't nearly so bad to have a large percent of your assets in coins. In other words, you could have 95% of your money in coins, but be a $100-millionaire, which means you still have $5million!

 

And, if coins is your business, then that too would be an excellent reason to have a high percentage of your assets tied up in coins. Or, more appropriately, you have a lot of money invested in inventory.

 

But it would seem that for the average person, like myself, a large percent of my money tied up in a collection - non-moving inventory - could be a big risk given other financial obligations.

 

Great thread, guys!

[World Colonial]

Based upon your post, it appears that you are actually exposed to coins for 7.5% because at least by my definition, gold and silver bullion are different. And though I own little of either now, it is something I am looking to buy in the near future (at a better entry point that may or may not come) and which I think everyone should own.

 

The primary risk I see in your allocation is that you are exposed to deflation which is what I expect to happen, though I know that I am one of the few people or only one on this board who apparently hold (or held) this opinion. But as long as the 20% in cash equivalents you have is secure and is enough of a cushion during what could be a depression, then you might be OK.

 

Personally, my allocation is less than 30% and I am looking to decrease it further, both by selectively selling coins that I expect to lose the most value and that I can replace - eventually - plus adding to my non-coin assets.

[tonidanzawillpay]

i only claim what is on the 'books'

[Al21-migration]

I think everybody has a different idea of how to invest. Invest in what you are knowledgeable in. Here's my breakdown,

 

7% coins

7% cash

7% stocks and bonds (70% bonds)

79% real estate

 

 

[RI AL]

A121

 

Especially in CA, how are you surviving the real eatate market with 79% in it?

[Conder101]

I think mine is probably 90% or more in coins. But I also have almost no debt and minimal expenses, very few personal possessions, and so far a regular income.

[Al21-migration]

We've definitely taken a hit, around 25%. However, except for our house, it is income producing real estate. It is not the time to sell real estate in CA!

[Houston Investor]

At this juncture, cash is king. This will be more so with the further coming crashes, devaualations, and defaults in:

 

* residential real estate declines further

* consumer credit defaults in droves, collapse of credit card industry

* the insolvent USA auto industry finally caves in

* city and state governments bankrupt

* national unemployment at 30 - 35%

* social unrest, open lawlessness, law enforcement greatly outnumbered.

* Big push to have Illegals dumped back in Mexico - the free med, ed, and welfare they get costs our system too much! Increasing hostility from white males like me against illegals, affirmative action, bilingual push, radical islam, and socialist policies. Eventually it will lead to all out war.

* Enemies like Iran, Paks, Russia embolded by perceived USA weakness either attack or push back further. China will be preparing to take on the winner. Israel, facing Holocaust II from the Hitler in Iran will need to strike first or perish. Look for joint USA, Israel, India sneak nuke attack against Iran, Syria, and Paks with an all out 1st strike nuke attack on Russia as strategic option if push comes to shove.

 

I don't any of the govt bailout will do any good. It is a fools errand to assume that socialist ideals will solve a worldwide financial problem. What I am still wondering is where did all the bailout money from the first one go and to who? Where is it? That has to be one of the biggest swindles in world history. The SEC should be indicted and made to answer this. The thief banksters involved should all be jailed.

 

I think currently we are like the USA of 1937 - 1938. That depression did not halt until World War II. Ours will not until WW 3. Iran will be first at bat. Once they are blasted from the face of the Earth, Pakistan and Russia will probably be next. Nation Building? Sorry no use for it - costs too much anyway. If the Taliban gain control of Paks then they also will have the 3 boomer subs given the Paks by France. These subs should be sunk asap. Taliban areas in Pak should be blasted from face of the Earth with nukes or at least gassed. It is said Barry Hussain Obama will probably go down as the Neville Chamberlin of our time. Has he ever run a business or made a payroll? I hear the bums at his inaugural made a big mess - can you just see these bums pooping all over our nations capitol. Talk with the Hitler in Iran? A fools errand. Better to blast him from the face of the Earth and be done with him and his minions. War is hell and thats what it needs to be for the enemy. I think USA rapidly approaching window a pre-empt nuke strike agains Paks and Iran will be on table if not already. Sorry but I think this bailout money should be spent on arming for war - nukes, ships, planes, troops, aircraft, gas, and munitions. Oh, and did I mention a space fleet? He who wins in space wins WW3. I have always beleived the space shuttle would make a nice boomer.

 

Remember, God made a covenant with Israel in the bible promising them all that land. Eventually there will be an Israeli leader who will not only uphold Israels part of the covenant, but aggrssively pursue it via all out war. If they are to survive, they really have no other choice. As far as the Hitler in Iran, his hand will be eventually be called and I mean big time. If I were calling shots, I would encircle him and set it up like a bullfight.

 

I will hold on to my coins, dog, land, guns, and cash. I expect soon to buy a nice house in Cali for cents on the dollar and I envision a pretty blonde relatively uneducated young cali gal living there with me (and providing companionship) bc she will need a place to stay and food for her children. Life will be good. But for many, like in poker their hand will be called and it will be game over.

 

[lehigh96]

So how many Jameson's and ginger ale's did you have before your posted that. Remember Nancy Reagan's motto "Just Say No"

 

PS. When your bluff gets called in poker. Simply stand up and say really loud RE-BUY!

[RareSov]

I think it's bad to own that if the stuff is common

 

If its DMPL Morgans, early classic gold, patterns.. buy MORE

 

If its truly rare gold world coins, buy MORE

 

If its bullion coins at not much over spot BUY MORE

[Houston Investor]

For what I have set for my numismatic business I usually favor a 10% Cash, 90% Inventory Mix. I have never depended on the coin market to make money in coins but mainly my skills in buying low and selling high - salesmanship. There are shows I favor as buying shows and others I would catagorize as good selling shows but in this economy all bets are off.

 

In this economy, I am thinking a 20% Cash allocation or higher. What I am finding is there are a lot of deals to buy it at my price, but retail at a decent profit is more of a dogfight lately. Sell my really nicer stuff for less? Not if I can avoid it. I just bring out the junk box and collector material (binders) which is high markup stuff anyway. For retail pricing I use Coin World Trends (at least as a starting point for negotiation) and have not seen any major price drops in the material I carry. While I will not price a coin above Trends (except some CAC coins or cost+ fromula requirements) due to ethical concerns, it helps when there is a lag in value decline between the bid sheets and retail price guices if any. I don't use the bid sheets to drive retail pricing as in many instances like blue sheet I see this as a sort of "wish price" posted by the individuals attempting to manipulate the market for their own ends which primarily reflects their cash flow. As their cash flow goes south, so do their bids.

 

My numismatic business is probably around 25% - 30% of my total asset structure with the rest mainly in land, realty, and stocks. As far as new investment cash inflow I use the 50 / 50 rule - 50% to the business with the balance allocated between other projects (like my 27 yr old GF).