Towards a Tirekicker Free Zone

[ant]

"law frowns on b-tch slapping such an individual."

 

actualy they consider spiting and hacking in face asault these days. you might as well B slap em. same charge!

[just-john]

will just open my case and the stuff will fall off.

IF a dealer did that to me HE/SHE had better have more than one spare tire in their car .Because boy they would need it

[Houston Investor]

will just open my case and the stuff will fall off.

IF a dealer did that to me HE/SHE had better have more than one spare tire in their car .Because boy they would need it

 

I think security would have your rear end. Why would a dealer do that to you? You don't go around laying trash on their tables do you?

 

BTW I am not joking when I tell someone to get their stuff off my table. I am not paying a table fee so some clod can cover up my stuff with his junk. And yes if they ignore me I will open up my case and that stuff will just fall off. Its amazing how far coins can roll on the bourse......so take responsibility and practice good show manners.

 

I know one time at a show we were all talking about what we would be having for dinner and one entree was going to be "roasted tire kicker." I suggested using A-1 Chicago Steakhouse Marinade first and then grill him over the fire. A guy commented "what good dat gonna do - the meat would be stringy as they are broke blokes." You know if sales are slow I just might revert to canabalism.

[Coin]

I had a situation similar to the example given. I was in a 'clump' of tables where the dealers were in sort of a horseshoe area and saw a dealer that I was looking for on the otherside of the 'U' . I walked over and greeted and went on to ask if he had a few notes with him that I couild go through. I was looking for a CHCU Radar and he happened to have a small stack under another table in his storage area . The problem occured when I met up with him . He was finishing a conversation with another customer , but the table he was behind was not his. I did not know this...as I only saw his face and did not stop and think

" I need to look for any banners that claim the table his....gee whiz...he was standing there doing business"

There was nobody else near that table or the two tables to either side. I put my notebook and tablet down on the corner of the display ...thinking it was his and that I'd only be a minute finding what I was looking for and there was nobody near the table or approaching ( I wouldn't want someone to walk off with my search notes) . Problem was , it wasn't his table...his was one table down . The dealer who owned the table , had apparently returned and found my clipboard and notes on his display ...to which he asked me , who was the only one there , if it was mine...I said yes and he then said " This is my table would you mind moving that ? "

I believe I turned completely 3 shades of grey ....I realized what I had done and felt really bad about it....I apologized profusely while I moved my stuff . He said very nicely that it was alright , he just didn't want his display blocked in case someone was to come by .

Your friend could probably learn that , before he tosses someone's stuff' on the floor , he could work really hard at being a decent human being and just simply asking politely first . It doesn't cost anything . This dealer happened to have an interesting item in the case that did not interest me , but was something that I happen to know someone else wanted and so I called my buddy's cellular and steered him over to where it was . Maybe he got it or didn't , I never found out , but I would not have sent him to check it out if the dealer that was very polite had been rude instead . I kinda feel bad about setting my stuff down like that , as I always make an extra effort to not put stuff in the way and whenever there is a crowd , I'm usually the first to ask if I am in anyone's way ...and kinda wished my dealer friend had mentioned that it wasn't his table...but the point is ...from your initial post , it sounds like your friend likes being a jerk and kind of childish....you know, you yell at me I'll yell back / playground rules an such. Tell him to grow up .

[BillJones]

BTW... I walked away from a nice XF-AU 1903-O Morgan Dollar because the dealer was more interested in shorting his slabbed coins instead of showing me the coin in his case. I thought the coin was priced more like XF but looked AU in the case.

 

Scott, that dealer actually did you a favor by not selling that 1903-O Morgan dollar to you. The 1903-O is one of those dates where there is very little spread. Below the MS-65, there is not not a lot of difference between MS-64 and AU. The Gray Sheet bid for MS-64 is $400. In AU is $320. Why buy an AU for only $80 less?

 

The reason for this is that there are very few circulated 1903-O dollars. Most of the pieces on the market came from the treasury hoard that turned up in the early 1960s. The 1885-CC has the same price structure.

[EZ_E]

Unless he's working on a circulated set. That would have made the xf/au a real score just as collecting circulated commems, some are a real buggar to find original XF.

[MAULEMALL]

BTW... I walked away from a nice XF-AU 1903-O Morgan Dollar because the dealer was more interested in shorting his slabbed coins instead of showing me the coin in his case. I thought the coin was priced more like XF but looked AU in the case.

 

Scott, that dealer actually did you a favor by not selling that 1903-O Morgan dollar to you. The 1903-O is one of those dates where there is very little spread. Below the MS-65, there is not not a lot of difference between MS-64 and AU. The Gray Sheet bid for MS-64 is $400. In AU is $320. Why buy an AU for only $80 less?

 

The reason for this is that there are very few circulated 1903-O dollars. Most of the pieces on the market came from the treasury hoard that turned up in the early 1960s. The 1885-CC has the same price structure.

Really sound advice here .

[just-john]

you know what they say one man's trash is another treasure=and the tire only flat on the bottom parking lot security at a coin show that's like jumbo shrimp . What shows do you do in AZ ? I'm going to the GPAA show at the fair grounds in PHX in Feb

[bsshog40]

My worst experience was one who had a seizure at my table. Luckily he did not break the glass when he zapped out. When it happened, I simply got up, walked away, and looked at some coins. They finally got some medics to take him away thank gosh "

 

Comments?

 

I can understand the nuisance of people intruding on your space while looking at another dealer's table, but this is truly despicable. Absolutely intolerable, and downright horrible as a human being. Please tell me who this dealer was, so that I can completely and totally avoid this slimeball in any future dealings. Anyone that condones this sort of behavior also deserves shunning in my book - please clarify at once whether you agree with this behavior so that I can decide whether or not to block you.

 

Thanks,

Someone who tries to have a little decency.

 

[font:Arial Black] I approve this message. [/font]

 

I'm with ya'll here. I have a slight feeling if someone threw my stuff to the floor while I was tirekicking, I 'd have throw him to the floor!

[TomB]

I have been thinking about this since I first read this post and will now mention it. One dangerous thing about opening up one's case to intentionally spill the coins, books or whatever of a potential client is that the client may use the dealer's table leg or case to stabilize himself as he bends down and this may cause an "accidental" knocking over of the table or the case. I would imagine the dealer would have quite a bit more in store for himself if this "accident" were to happen.

[Houston Investor]

While set up at a show in Cali one rather interesting tirekicker experience happened at the table next to me.

 

A collector (with his very attractive miniskirted wife by him) looked at junk coins for a long time and did not buy anything. He eventually left the table but the wife stayed sitting in one of the chairs, obviously tired and bored. The dealer at that table (we will call him Bob) engaged her in conversation. Eventually the conversation turned to him asking questions about her likeing the beach and what did she do during the day. He even gave her a business card and was aggressively flirting with her. She eventually left smiling and there was no further incident. I don't think coins was the only thing Bob was interested in that day......I could not believe the incident - I had seen Bob proposition another dealers college age daughter at a show but a customer's wife? Unbelievable.

 

As far as another mans trash being another ones treasure...well its all a matter of perspective and potential I guess.

[bartlesvilleok]

will just open my case and the stuff will fall off.

IF a dealer did that to me HE/SHE had better have more than one spare tire in their car .Because boy they would need it

 

I think security would have your rear end. Why would a dealer do that to you? You don't go around laying trash on their tables do you?

 

BTW I am not joking when I tell someone to get their stuff off my table. I am not paying a table fee so some clod can cover up my stuff with his junk. And yes if they ignore me I will open up my case and that stuff will just fall off. Its amazing how far coins can roll on the bourse......so take responsibility and practice good show manners.

 

I know one time at a show we were all talking about what we would be having for dinner and one entree was going to be "roasted tire kicker." I suggested using A-1 Chicago Steakhouse Marinade first and then grill him over the fire. A guy commented "what good dat gonna do - the meat would be stringy as they are broke blokes." You know if sales are slow I just might revert to canabalism.

 

With the post this guy keeps making it, makes me wonder if a "friend" really is the one that said that in the orginal post or if it was just him all along. I think it is funny about the whole "sales are slow" thing I don't think he is bright enough to get why sales are slow.

[Revenant]

Ya know, the few times I went to a show I'm sure there a few dealers that didn't particularly love me or dealing with me. I'm sure some of them placed me in the "tire kicker" category even though I don't normally stay in one place very long. The problem is though, that I usually go to a show with a very specific and very short list of what I want. If I don't find that, I'm very unlikely to buy anything else. I can be an extremely difficult person to do business with as a result. You can't usually sell me on something I didn't want before I walked in the room.

[Coin]

Ya know , from some of the 'Dealer' point of view posts I've read on this site and some of the comments on peep's show reports...I'm really beginning to wonder if dealers really want customers at all . Maybe they just want to have private get-togethers to swap and only trade amongst themselves . How can a dealer make any money if they aren't willing to gain new customers ?

 

Arizona1950 , by your comments here and in other posts , I can only think that you are a dealer and that you set-up at coin shows.

 

1)What is your opinion of the purpose of these coin shows ? Are they just for dealers to swap/trade stock or is a coin show not an avenue to making sales to the public and possibly gaining new customers?

 

2)Do most of the dealers that you encounter seem to have such a difficult time dealing with the public at shows ?

 

3) Is it really more fun to just make fun of people that seem 'lost' rather than maybe enlighten them or even just offer to offer help?

 

4) Do you have any examples of situations where you have personally helped someone or maybe politely corrected someone ?

 

5) How about examples of what a dealer thinks would be considered good table/bourse ettiquet for potential tire-kickers....what would you consider to be acceptable for those that shop in this manner , so that dealers do not feel a need to charbroil with steak sauce the ones that do?

 

I realize that not everyone that shops is well-mannered and well meaning , customers CAN be jerks too , however , isn't there a better way to 'handle' these types that you could offer up to the reading public that might want to be better informed customers from your experience ?

 

I happen to know a few dealers that are very helpful and service-oriented , that also attend shows , and I aggressively support them by making purchases from their wares , at times by tire-kicking their stock and then FINDING something not on my list , but something that is on my 'I didn't think about adding this to my list , but I sure gotta have it un-list' . Unless every dealer sends me a 'stock' list of everything they are going to bring to every show ....how am I to know that they might have something that I would like to purchase in their cases.....other than pre-arranged items I know they are holding for me in advance?

[just-john]

Think Arizona 1950 just like pulling peoples chains looks for reactions on the forum

because he/she gets more action here than at his/her table at the VFW ect

[Coin]

I don't know if I think his posts are 'leading' and for pulling or chains or not.

I think Arizona has experience with doing coin shows and has a 'seller's' perspective . I was asking for his opinion based upon his experiences , hoepfully for the benefit of useful information .

 

I'm not exactly sure if he collects or is a hobbyist , but then , this forum is made up of collectors , investors , sellers/dealers , and folks that are a little of everything , so there will be differing perspectives on every subject posted.

[Houston Investor]

Coin - I generally like tirekickers as it is fascinating to get their perspective. I find they make good junk box customers and you never know what they might buy. At small local shows I will devote 2 feet of table space to my junk box (coins priced below $10). I also have binders in this area of coins in 2 x 2's inside vinyl pages in a ring binder for coins a tad more expensive but not worth slabbing for one reason or another. This is nice high markup material (100% or more) and often I have been more excited about selling some of this stuff especially getting in a dogfight just to make $10 on a $250 slabbed coin! Frankly, I think much more of tirekickers who will spend an inordinate amount of time going thru junk boxes than some of the ATS Kool Aid drinkers I have encountered in these forums.

 

I once had a fellow pick out a $1.00 coin he wanted to take across the room to look at it thru a microscope. Having only 35c in it I figured what the heck. He came back and said "no interest." I told him "well my counter offer is zero." He then took the coin and not so much as a thank you walked off. The dealer next to me witnessed the whole thing and just laughed and laughed. Another fellow picked out $130 worth of junk box coins (a big sale for that stuff!) and I let him have them for $100 after seeing him pull out a $100 bill and then ask if me if I could work with him on the deal. Not to worry though, bc after adding up the cost codes on the stuff I still chalked up $60 profit.

 

Generally I give them half hour to look thru the junk box then prod them for what they are going to buy. If nothing, I politely suggest they be on their way. In this way, others who want to look have a chance to see the material and purchase nice coins for their collections. Of course, I do not allow these customers to cover up my cases (where the slabbed coins are) with their stuff. For those who have questions about the value of their collections / inheritance (but are not sellers) I don't mind referring them to a book dealer.

 

I am not necessarily trying to pull anyones chain here as I started this thread to inject some humur into these forums which I think have been rather dull lately. Everybody knows tirekickers are the butt of a lot of jokes in the marketplace.

[michael]

the totally all time worst thing

 

about the coin game is cheap stingy customers

[Houston Investor]

Yes Michael I agree completely, I have experienced that feeling more often than I can admit. I can name a lot of shows where their only redeeming quality is the BBQ or free Pizza on dealer set up night.

 

As a matter of fact I confess to using that term to describe a banker fellow who I have seen at shows over the years who is only a buyer at "sheet."

 

I have been at shows where I have wondered why am I wasting my weekend doing this? Cheap A after Cheap A passing on nice coins. The only thing that made sense is that all the other guys set up must have had the stuff from Day 1 or else it walked in the shop at 60% of bid. 10c on the dollar doesn't cut it in the coin business - to thrive you gotta master the art of buying low and selling high - thats why a lot of them became graders or run an auction house.

 

Coins are basically a hobby and like any other retail business you can't really afford to pay more than 60% of what you can sell it for. Thats why a lot of the time I just offer no more than 60% of sheet for coins brought to my table. Sometimes a lot less if its off demand material or retail sales are slow.

[bsshog40]

I guess seeings how I am a low budget collector that I would probably fall into the tirekicker category. I can accept that with no problem. I've only been to a couple coin shows and I look, and look, and look, and I'll rummage thru the junk boxes but I'm not a certain type collector, so I guess I just tirekick until something catches my eye. I went to my first coin show in Ft.Worth a couple years ago and met up with Bruce. I wasn't looking for anything peticular, just looking when bruce pointed out a Lincoln Dansco with some coins in it. He kind of talked me into it. Now it's about 85% complete. My point was I wasn't looking for anything like that, but if I'm considered a tirekicker for browing til something catches my eye then that's fine, I just hope I'm not condemned for it or be the Butt of someone's jokes. Low budget collectors myself take more time to figure what they want to buy with very little money and be happy with it, not just settle.

[jackson64]

Great point Bobby...I am also a "tirekicker" by the standards alluded to in this thread. However I usually have saved a few thousand dollars for a major show when they come to Baltimore.

 

I enjoy browsing for things that might catch my eye and are cheap...I also enjoy the "junk boxes" since I also collect by theme--sailing ship coins and coins with marine life---which reminds me of how rude and indifferent most dealers were toward me on the bourse. I really think many should just leave the business if it makes them that miserable !!

 

I remember one dealer who humphed and sighed me several times while I was trying to pick out the nicest Jamestown dollar I could find out of the several he had raw.....his rudeness drove me away from the table and the other coin he had in his case that I was prepared to buy..his MS65 Hudson ( although I did buy my Hudson that day else where, that jackhole wasn't getting any of my money)

 

I'll never understand the nasty attitudes so many of them impose on customers with wallets of cash and a love for the hobby---the disdain is palpable..

[Houston Investor]

There is nothing wrong with low budget coins or just having fun at the show searching thru these for something to at least pick up at the show. I will sometimes do this myself. As a matter of fact I think it is a smart play if you just don't want to commit big bucks to expensive coins. I sometimes look thru my own junk box or inexpensive raw material I have in ring binders to see if there is something I may have missed or could further appreciate or research. I like to sit with my junk box when it is quiet late at night with a high ball of Canada Dry and Jameson Irish Whisky and just look at coins.

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

I can't tell you if I qualify as a tire kicker or not. However, I do walk shows and look at all tables with coins in areas where I collect and that I might purchase coins in before I normally buy. I do not rumage in junk boxes or buy rummage coins. I don't collect most modern issues because I already have more of those then I want or need. I do look carefully though coin stock that interests me and feel out a dealer whom I do not know, before buying. Plus, I now always buy certified, classic coins that I like, not raw, because I have been fooled by a few clever doctors and the TPG's at least filter most of that out.

 

Besides, I don't really care if dealers do not like my style or even if they make remarks to their fellow dealers about me. Just don't do it where I can hear you. Business is business and love is X.X. when it comes to coin deals unless I know you personally.

 

Besides, don't you just love it when a dealer shows you a coin that you sold him (2) hours before and he tells you how much he screwed you because he can't remember your face. That has happened to me at Long Beach, by the way, back when I was younger and collected Morgan's.

[Houston Investor]

Gold strategy Old Trader. Reminds me of this:

 

Be wary of the old guy, supposedly experienced dealer walking the bourse with the briefcase of raw type coins hawking this stuff to dealers at the show, many that are circulated. Next time I see this bird at a show I am gonna try and find out who he is. The coins he has in his assortment of 2x2 boxes may appear properly graded but may have some surprises if submitting to a TPG:

 

A dealer friend of mine got burned bad by him at the Houston money show on about $500 in circulated type coins in December on 3 raw coins he bought and submitted to NGC. Two came back body bagged and one came back graded a half grade lower at VF 30, not the XF 40 given by the seller. He thought for sure he knew enough about grading not to get ripped on circ type - wrong.

 

Your story about the dealer bragging how he ripped you 2 hours before reminds me of a well known national Boston currency dealer who ripped me on a $350 supposedly Gem CU note I purchased mail order. When I offered it to him at a Dallas currency show (I had set up at) about six months later to see if he bought back what he sold he made fun of it laughing loudly and said "this isn't even CU." I have not dealt with the slug since. I remember when currency TPG first came on the scene how he would publish anti TPG propoganda in his ads. No wonder.

 

Better to be a tire kicker than lose money.