Will This MS 1954-S Jefferson Nickel Get a F/S or N/S Designation?

[WoodenJefferson]

F/S = Full Step

 

N/S = No Steps

 

I was going through a few of my raw Jeffersons looking for RPM’s, OMM’s etc.

and found this one. You have to remember, that this coin is in MS condition and

hasn’t seen any circulation since it left the Frisco Mint in 1954.

 

 

My pet name for these San Francisco minted coins are “snowdrift steps”

 

 

FYI:

 

Based strictly on combined NGC and PCGS population figures, the most common Jeffersons with full steps are:

 

Five Full Steps or more

 

1.1943-D

2.1944-D

3.1941-D

4.1940-D

5.1950-D

6.1945-D

7.1943-S

8.1943-P

9.1971-D

10.1942-D

 

Six Full Steps

1.1943-D

2.1944-D

3.1940-D

4.1941-D

5.1945-D

6.1943-P

7.1943-S

8.1940

9.1993-D

10.1996-D

 

[coinman1794]

1950s S-mint Jeffersons are often struck like this. The graders usually dock them considerably.

[physics-fan3.14]

1950s S-mint Jeffersons are often struck like this. The graders usually dock them considerably.

 

And they should! A strike like that would limit it to 63 or 64 in my book.

[James_OldeTowne]

1950s S-mint Jeffersons are often struck like this. The graders usually dock them considerably.

 

And they should! A strike like that would limit it to 63 or 64 in my book.

I agree. In fact, I would net-grade such as coin as AU. Whether details are missing due to light circulation or light strike is all the same to me - it's missing detail, for Pete's sake! And the value should be similar.

[physics-fan3.14]

I agree that the value will be much lower for this piece (perhaps comparable to AU pieces), but I disagree that the grade should be lowered. If it has not circulated, it should not be listed as AU. The details are as struck, with no wear - the details just weren't struck. I guess this goes back to the perennial market/technical grading

[MarkFeld]

In fact, I would net-grade such as coin as AU. Whether details are missing due to light circulation or light strike is all the same to me - it's missing detail, for Pete's sake!

That's silly. Uncirculated coins shouldn't be net graded to AU due to weakness in strike. If you want to place a lower value on such a coin due to the poor strike, that's a completely different matter, or at least it should be.

[bsshog40]

A weak strike should not lower the grade if the series is known for weak strikes. I do think that it will stop the FS designation as there can be no proof whether it would have been FS or not even if the strike was not weak.

[coinman1794]

A weak strike should not lower the grade if the series is known for weak strikes. I do think that it will stop the FS designation as there can be no proof whether it would have been FS or not even if the strike was not weak.

 

Well, the FS designation has more to do with a sharp strike (for most dates) than with original die definition, which seems to be what you were focussing on. It is true however, that some dates did not have full steps visible on the dies themselves.

[physics-fan3.14]

A weak strike should not lower the grade if the series is known for weak strikes.

 

I'm rather confused by your post, Bobby. Strike is an important part of grading, and while there are variations allowed for issues known for weak strikes, an abysmal strike on a normally weakly struck issue should still lower the grade. the 1953S Franklin is normally the worst struck Franklin, but a bad strike should still lower the grade if its really bad.

 

I do think that it will stop the FS designation as there can be no proof whether it would have been FS or not even if the strike was not weak.

 

What is your understanding of the meaning of the FS designation? It has nothing to do with the state of the die at all. It is a strike designation. If the coin is not fully struck, it won't get the designation. Woody's question was a tongue in cheek question, no one except Ebay shysters would ever mistake this coin.

[bsshog40]

A weak strike should not lower the grade if the series is known for weak strikes.

 

I'm rather confused by your post, Bobby. Strike is an important part of grading, and while there are variations allowed for issues known for weak strikes, an abysmal strike on a normally weakly struck issue should still lower the grade. the 1953S Franklin is normally the worst struck Franklin, but a bad strike should still lower the grade if its really bad.

My comment was based on others saying this should not grade above AU. I think that a strictly uncirculated coin should still be graded MS taking the weak strike into consideration. Otherwise, if this coin had a lot of contact marks, you probably would not be able to distinquish this from a circulated coin. The condition of the coin indicates it being uncirculated.

I do think that it will stop the FS designation as there can be no proof whether it would have been FS or not even if the strike was not weak.

 

What is your understanding of the meaning of the FS designation? It has nothing to do with the state of the die at all. It is a strike designation. If the coin is not fully struck, it won't get the designation. Woody's question was a tongue in cheek question, no one except Ebay shysters would ever mistake this coin.

This is my point exactly. I may have worded it wrong but FS(FullStep) to me means having Full Steps regardless of the strike.

[physics-fan3.14]

This is my point exactly. I may have worded it wrong but FS(FullStep) to me means having Full Steps regardless of the strike.

 

This is what I don't get. FS is by definition a full strike. You can't have full steps without a full strike, so your comment about "regardless of the strike" really doesn't make any sense unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. To get FS, there must be 6 fully distinct, separate, and full steps uninterrupted by ticks, marks, or blemishes. Some TPGs denote 5 FS as well, requiring only 5 of the steps to be full.

[bsshog40]

This is my point exactly. I may have worded it wrong but FS(FullStep) to me means having Full Steps regardless of the strike.

 

This is what I don't get. FS is by definition a full strike. You can't have full steps without a full strike, so your comment about "regardless of the strike" really doesn't make any sense unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. To get FS, there must be 6 fully distinct, separate, and full steps uninterrupted by ticks, marks, or blemishes. Some TPGs denote 5 FS as well, requiring only 5 of the steps to be full.

OK OK FS Full Steps!!! Great Strike, full steps. Weak strike, no steps. Same thing you're saying only I'm wording in a way to confuse you.

[physics-fan3.14]

OK OK FS Full Steps!!! Great Strike, full steps. Weak strike, no steps. Same thing you're saying only I'm wording in a way to confuse you.

 

I just had no idea what you were talking about, man! Some people see things differently and word them differently.

[WoodenJefferson]

[bsshog40]

I can't explain myself anymore. I'm soo confused!!

[rrantique]

This is my point exactly. I may have worded it wrong but FS(FullStep) to me means having Full Steps regardless of the strike.

 

This is what I don't get. FS is by definition a full strike. You can't have full steps without a full strike, so your comment about "regardless of the strike" really doesn't make any sense unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. To get FS, there must be 6 fully distinct, separate, and full steps uninterrupted by ticks, marks, or blemishes. Some TPGs denote 5 FS as well, requiring only 5 of the steps to be full.

 

See below, in this instance FS does not mean Full Strike or First Strike rather it means Full Steps. ie 5FS or 6FS.

 

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=250

[bsshog40]

This is my point exactly. I may have worded it wrong but FS(FullStep) to me means having Full Steps regardless of the strike.

 

This is what I don't get. FS is by definition a full strike. You can't have full steps without a full strike, so your comment about "regardless of the strike" really doesn't make any sense unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. To get FS, there must be 6 fully distinct, separate, and full steps uninterrupted by ticks, marks, or blemishes. Some TPGs denote 5 FS as well, requiring only 5 of the steps to be full.

 

See below, in this instance FS does not mean Full Strike or First Strike rather it means Full Steps. ie 5FS or 6FS.

 

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=250

I think this is where the confusion came it. One person was refering FS to Full Strike while I was looking at the OP FS as Full Steps.

[physics-fan3.14]

No, I know FS means Full Steps, I thought that was understood. I was just confused with Bobby's posts. What I was trying to say is that you won't get full steps without a full strike (and first strike doesn't mean a thing in this conversation).

 

Sorry to have caused so much confusion, guys.

[coinman1794]

No, I know FS means Full Steps, I thought that was understood. I was just confused with Bobby's posts. What I was trying to say is that you won't get full steps without a full strike (and first strike doesn't mean a thing in this conversation).

 

Sorry to have caused so much confusion, guys.

 

Dont feel so bad, I said it first--but everyone ignored me as usual

 

[bsshog40]

No, I know FS means Full Steps, I thought that was understood. I was just confused with Bobby's posts. What I was trying to say is that you won't get full steps without a full strike (and first strike doesn't mean a thing in this conversation).

 

Sorry to have caused so much confusion, guys.

 

Dont feel so bad, I said it first--but everyone ignored me as usual

That's ok. At least in some way shape or form, we were all on the same page. (thumbs u

[brog]

Hi Folks,. Let me get my two cents worth in here. Even though it is ms i surely would not send it for grading.for there was a cud or somthing that kept it from getting a good strike. It not only has no steps but it did not get the columns of the porch. But the wording is good. So something happened.

Ron

[WoodenJefferson]

It would be fun/interesting to send this in just to see what a grading service would do with it in it's current condition. Here's the obverse which also displays a weak strike in the hair.

 

[brog]

It would be interesting. The obverse is a 62 in my guess. But you take my expertise an two dollars an you might get a cup of coffee. HA HA