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Is this Seated Dollar a Pass or Pay? Rim problems? Old cleaning?

Started by Prethen,

24 posts in this topic

Prethen

Prethen

Posted
Posted

1871 $1

 

I ordered the above coin (and have the opportunity at the moment to not have it shipped) before noticing the upturned (wire-like) rim on the obverse on the right edge. Is this coin As Made from the Mint or is that likely a problem in the holder? Anything else strike you as a reason to not purchase it?

 

Thanks!

 

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
Posted

I don't see anything wrong with that. Indeed, it appears to be a choice, circulated, crusty dollar, and well worth adding to your collection. I'm not entirely sure what you are looking at, but it appears that there might be a trick of the photograph and how it was cropped.

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Prethen

Prethen

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Look at the right rim on the obverse. It is raised like a wire-rim and I've been told by a fellow forum member that the coin is likely a problem and the rim disturbance is not Mint-made.

 

I'm concerned because if the coin has been messed with it would be tough to resell if I "guess" wrong. Normally, a wire rim wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but I have to admit that I'm no expert with Seated Dollars and don't know if this is a not-all-that-rare occurrence. Would it be beyond ANACS to put a problem coin in their holder like this if it was a damaged rim like that? Is there some way that you can tell for sure, even in the holder, by some characteristic that should be looked for...and what is that characteristic(s)?

 

I appreciate your comments.

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Brando

Brando

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I could be wrong, but to me that just looks like a bad cropping job on the photo and not part of the coin...Either way I hope this turns out well for you.

 

-Brandon

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coinman1794

coinman1794

Posted
Posted
Look at the right rim on the obverse. It is raised like a wire-rim and I've been told by a fellow forum member that the coin is likely a problem and the rim disturbance is not Mint-made.

 

I'm concerned because if the coin has been messed with it would be tough to resell if I "guess" wrong. Normally, a wire rim wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but I have to admit that I'm no expert with Seated Dollars and don't know if this is a not-all-that-rare occurrence. Would it be beyond ANACS to put a problem coin in their holder like this if it was a damaged rim like that? Is there some way that you can tell for sure, even in the holder, by some characteristic that should be looked for...and what is that characteristic(s)?

 

I appreciate your comments.

 

That does not appear to be anything unusual and should not be an issue. It might be a shadow, an elusion caused by the camera angle, or a slightly off center strike. The pics aren't great, but I do not see anything that would be damage.

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Mark T

Mark T

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Posted

I have one in an NGC MS 62 Holder that has an observe rim issue. Like you I did not notice it when I looked at the coins picture before I bid. Other then that small flaw the coin is decent.

72589.jpg.d71b428c2fbf1d2c77cdafc40c116b52.jpg

72590.jpg.083e3574c69a503b8279059ebfa10b51.jpg

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

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It appears that this particular coin was struck in a partial collar. The only way to actually tell would be to see the reeding and how it was affected by this slight misalignment. It occurs when the reeded collar is pushed somewhat below the surface of the lower die, so that the upper portion of the coin is free to expand beyond the confines of the collar, all the while the lower portion is restrained.

 

So, this would appear to be Mint Made and not post mint damage.

 

Rest easy, but this anomaly, if it is in fact present, should have been denoted on the slab.

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Prethen

Prethen

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Oddly enough, I believe the rim at the right obverse is not a problem, just a wire rim/Mint-made. How about the minor rim disturbances/scrapes? from 1-2 o'clock on the obverse and rim ticks on right reverse? Big deal or no? How about the left field of the obverse...look cleaned?

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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That "wire rim" is mint made, and not terribly uncommon for these coins. I think this particular example is "OK" for the grade, but not fantastic. It may well have been cleaned (more likely dipped) a long time ago, but appears comfortably retoned.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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Bruce, I haven't read the other replies yet, but.....

 

You love to beat your head against brick walls, don't you? :devil: Wait for a certified example that you don't have questions or concerns about right out of the gate.

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Prethen

Prethen

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I sort of got into analysis/paralysis with this one. The last several larger scale purchases (for me over a few hundred I consider larger scale) I've made had to be returned to dealers. Most of those had poor photos or no photos at all and I depended on the dealer and my relationship with them to get a good coin. Circulated seated dollars with that no-problem, original look have been basically non-existent for me. The local shows around here don't have them so I need to look at online dealers. I've become very trigger-shy due to paying all those out-of-pocket shipping expenses back and forth...not to mention quite annoyed and dismayed. Yes, this dollar looks like it could be good but I have enough questions about it that I'll pass. Ultimately, it would be best for me to see it in hand before purchasing. I feel like lately it's like chasing an impossible dream.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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James, out of curiosity...why do you say it's just "OK"? Typically, these coins come cleaned and with more obvious distractions.

I am speaking from my own standpoint, of course. But I would be in the market for a Seated dollar for my typeset. And, the silver coins in my typeset is comprised of VF/EF coins with normal silver/grey patina. The subject coin looks a little brownish to me, and would stand out like a sore thumb. So, for what I would use the coin for, it's just "OK", but not exactly what I would prefer in my set.

 

On the other hand, if all the other silver coins in my typeset were brownish, then the subject coin would rank higher in my estimation.

 

If the coin is in fact not brown "in the hand", then that would change things.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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Oddly enough, I believe the rim at the right obverse is not a problem, just a wire rim/Mint-made. How about the minor rim disturbances/scrapes? from 1-2 o'clock on the obverse and rim ticks on right reverse? Big deal or no? How about the left field of the obverse...look cleaned?

 

I see nothing at all unusual or wrong with this coin. The supposed wire rim is either just that, or it might even be the typical loss of patina that results from coins being squeezed into slab gaskets. Friction causes the toning to be scraped off the coins corner as it is pressed into place, and this can show up as a bright line at the rim.

 

Example; look at upper obverse rim:

http://www.davidlawrence.com/auctions/viewitem.cfm?Inventory=264649&auc=333&lotid=598453&imgbase=&CFID=1280369&CFTOKEN=1776d14cb75eadb9-FB0151F5-2BFC-0A80-3023F4723B634E9E

 

As for the the overall quality, there is no evidence of cleaning or tampering visible from the images. The case could be different in hand. The grade is accurate; the obverse has minimal amounts of wear scattered over rather softly struck design elements, while the reverse is razor sharp with almost to wear. The patina seems nice and deep, and anything of that nature is desirable on a Seated Dollar, as most have been dipped and cleaned. In fact, most certified examples are fully brilliant in grades as low as Fine. I say go for it.

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michael

michael

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rin is a wire rim mint made

 

but the many rim dinged reverse and from the photo the hairlines in the left obv field again from the photo and also the overall cleaned look of the coin and definately cleaned reverse and most importantly the negative eye appeal

 

thiscoin does not fit my criteria for ever being on my collection as the problems will only magnify themselves month after month of owning it

 

i rather search for a year or so and find a gem circ original coin and if for some reason i never find one well this is oiie i will survive but they are out there if you look enough but it aint going to be cheap but killer monster original seated dollars even so caLLED COMMON DATES they WOULD NOT BE COMMON with original never cleaned or played with AND eye appealing gem circ surfaces and no rim dings

 

 

BOTTOM LINE

the coin is a pass for me

 

 

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