1800 Large Cent opinions wanted

[CoinZip]

I would like you honest opinions.........don't hold back, if its ugly say its ugly....

 

[BillJones]

There is rubbing on the high points, but it is a decent coin for what it is. The detail falls into the VG-Fine range, and it should sell for a price within that grade. The surfaces are pretty smooth and overall it would be a fine addition to a circulated large cent date set.

 

As year 1800 is tougher than some people might think. It is definitely a tougher date than both 1802 and 1803. I'd say that this coin was a nice find.

[bsshog40]

I agree with Bill. Nice Large cent. Alot better than my AG 1805.

[dean1345]

She has weathered very nicely. I would like to have Her in my collection.

[realone]

Sorry, it is fugly but I rather have fugly than worn smooth, or corroded!

[jesbroken]

I say, "Nice 208 year old coin". A keeper.

Jim

[RI AL]

I think she's a nice looking coin!!! Not ugly at all. I'd go VG 8* and I don't see any real problems with the coin.

 

So I figured I would try to figure out the variety just for fun. YIKES! According to Sheldon (Penny Whimsy), the 1800 cents are the hardest year of the series to attribute. There are about 25 varieties so, I didn't feel too badly when I couldn't do it on my first go through. Another problem is that I can't determine what is going on inside the zeros in the date and something is odd at the base of the 8. I didn't see any of the obvious die breaks that are present on many of the varieties of the 1800 cents. Wear is also a factor but I'm going to give it another try and if I have a fairly good idea as to variety, I'll get back. "STATES OF" is weak and I'm not sure if there is anything diagnostic in there somewhere.

 

*I thought it was interesting that Sheldon states that the 1799 and 1800 cents were made of the softest copper, thus wearing more easily. I'm not sure how this might impact the grade but perhaps it could be higher with this in consideration.

 

Can someone recommend to me which book of early large cents WITH photos is best? Thanks.

 

RI AL

[Brando]

CoinZip,

 

Very nice large cent...as BillJones said 1800 is a tougher date, which I can attest to, and are not often found with as much obverse detail as yours shows. Be proud, shes a beauty.

[EZ_E]

I also like it as a raw coin. It has been recolored and would probably never slab but you got a nice, better date coin, I think.

[RI AL]

CoinZip.

 

I have failed!! I can NOT figure out the variety of your 1800 cent. I'm hoping there is a large cent guy out there that can help me out. I found a few close calls, but I just can't pin down the exact variety. I was getting excited with 12Q and 16R but neither is a perfect match. 9K, 9M and 12P also had me going for a bit but I eliminated them too for one reason or another. I'm VERY curious so if anyone out there can help, I would really appreciate it!

 

In several references to 1800 cents in Sheldon, it talks about "incuse letters" as in variety 16R. Can anyone explain what this means. I understand "incuse" but WHAT letters and what size are they. I can't see them in any of the small pictures in Sheldon and I would really like to know what he is talking about.

 

Many thanks. Frustrated RI AL

[michael]

it is in my minds eye above average eye appeal and a ever so close to a solid fine 12 with no problems so fine 11??

 

also the surfaces on the obverse are average plus

 

and just about average on the reverse

 

overall i love it

 

overall an above average large cent and a super cool better early date to boot

[michael]

it just do it

 

send it to me!!

[Conder101]

Can someone recommend to me which book of early large cents WITH photos is best? Thanks.

Both Breen's Encyclopedia of United States Large Cents 1793 - 1814, and Noyes United States Large Cents 1793 - 1814 are realy good books with nice LARGE pictures, but the Noyes book is probably the better of the two for attributing. The images are better and the coated glossy paper makes for much sharper images.

 

The problem is both books are out of print and neither one is cheap. The Breen book will run $75 to $100 usually and is becoming difficult to find.. The Noyes book is much harder to get elsewhere, but is still available from the distributor. Problem is in order to buy the early date volume you have to buy the middle date one as well. (The middle dates can be purchased separately but not the early dates.) And the cost for the two volumes is in the $250 dollar range. From time to time Numislit does sell just the early date book by itself on eBay. One sold about a week ago for about $130.

 

I do think I know what the variety is. Al, First it is not one of the overdates. then note the bare spot in the hair just about in the center of the head. I believe there are only two varieties with that bare spot there. Finally look just to the right of the top of the B in LIBERTY and tell me if you see what I do.

[CoinZip]

I've been told by several Large Cent guys its a S-210.

 

Condition rarity comes into play, I'm told there are not many high grade S-210's, most are low grade and or damaged.

 

The coin does not belong to me, but I do have the honor of photographing it for a collector budy of mine.........

 

BTW he payed about 100 bucks for it and offered it to me for 200........before I showed him my Sheldon Book. Then he wanted to buy my sheldon book

[RI AL]

Conder and CoinZip.

 

Thanks for the replies and encouragement of my attribution efforts on the 1800 large cent. What I referred to as 16.R IS S-210 in Sheldon. It was one of the 3 or 4 possibilities I had considered, but Conder sealed it by pointing out the "comma". Now I feel a bit better! I saw the "comma" between the B and E but couldn't make out the light die crack on the reverse through AMERICA, but now that you guys point out those things, everything else in Sheldon's description of S-210 falls into place nicely.This is a R-7, "extremely rare with 4-12 known" and "this famous variety came near to being R-8,...". How neat is THAT!!!

 

RI AL

 

 

[RI AL]

CoinZip...

 

Tell your friend to keep his mitts off your Sheldon! He can pick up a used copy at abebooks.com for $25.

[RI AL]

conder

 

Forgot to thank you for the Large cent book references. I'm on the hunt as we speak.

 

Thanks!!!! Alan

[realone]

Hey R-7's can be fugly!

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Both Breen's Encyclopedia of United States Large Cents 1793 - 1814, and Noyes United States Large Cents 1793 - 1814 are realy good books with nice LARGE pictures, but the Noyes book is probably the better of the two for attributing. The images are better and the coated glossy paper makes for much sharper images.

Yup, I agree. I use the heck out of my Noyes books, and consider them absolutely necessary for any serious copper collector. My only criticism is that sometimes, the suggested diagnostics are not easily found on well worn coins (AG, G, VG or so). But this is a criticism common to virtually every attribution guide in existence.

[Conder101]

That's why I wrote an attribution guide for Draped busts back in 1985 specifically targeted for the low grade coins. It worked pretty well (and allowed myself and some others to cherry some very tough pieces out of the low grade boxes) but the 1800's were still a challenge. I have since improved it (and included the rest of the early dates) but have never marketed the new version.

 

Al, It IS a very tough variety, but you have to remember the Rarity levels you are seeing there in Penny Whimsy were current back in 1957 (Book published in 1958. There have been other printings since then but no serious revisions to the text.). There has been fifty years of cherrypicking since then so it is no longer an R-7. It is down to a solid R-5, maybe a 5+. Your talking maybe 40 to 45 pieces known today in all conditions This piece might make the tail end of the extended Condition Census. Noyes lists the top 17 pieces two 45's, two 20's, four 12's, three 10's, three 8's, and a 7. I have a solid G-5 but I have a very late die state, either State VII or State VIII, with the heavy cud on the reverse. (Tells you how quickly this die went to pieces. 45 known specimens and 8 different Die States.)

[RI AL]

Thanks for the update, Conder. 5+ isn't too shabby either for that Sheldon S-210 but of course, it makes sense that more would be discovered in the 50 years since Penny Whimsy came out.

 

You were of course right about prices for the Noyes and Breen books. They would be nice to have but a bit pricy for me right now. I think I'll post a "wanted to buy used copy" on Amazon and see if I get any results.

 

When was YOUR book printed on the Draped Busts? Do you plan to market the update at some point?

 

RI AL

[1798CentCollector-migratio]

Nice pick-up for your buddy. A decent example. If I were grading it, I'd assign it a VG10 for details. As Condor 101 said, certainly in the bottom (or close to of the top 10 examples in the census

[MikeInFL]

Nice coin. It does have some issues (old corrosion and maybe even a recoloring), but still way above average for an 1800, much less an R-5 one! Congrats to your friend, that's a very good coin, and FWIW, I'd net grade it with F details to around VG 8 or 10. All IMHO & respectfully submitted...Mike