World Series of Grading? WHAT A JOKE!!! lol lol lol

[Leothelion]

What a joke this is!!! Grade 40 coins in 30 minutes!! Then it jumps to 100 coins in 60 minutes!!! What's the point? To see who can grade a coin the fastest? This is just too obvious! No wonder PCGS can't grade coins! Their main objective is to keep churning out as many slabs as possible to make their money. What a shame! What a Joke!

 

"3, 2, 1, (gasp) MINT STATE 70"

 

Leo

[TomB]

The article about the WS or Grading states that each contestant must "buy" a reservation for $50. That seems pretty steep! In all, I bet PCGS won't have to pay out any cash of their own to the winners, they can just use the entrance fees.

[gmarguli]

While I have mentioned many times it would be nice to have the grading services provide coins for a service like this, I never imagined one would be so cheap to make you pay $50 for it. Haven't they ever heard of goodwill?

 

Personally, this sounds like a way for PCGS to test some of the dealers and advanced collectors and get a list of potential graders so they can fire the current senile ones and hopefully get the turnaround times down below 4 months.

 

And giving 30 minutes for 40 coins seems like a lot. Give them some pressure. 40 coins in 10 minutes - that's 15 seconds each and should be enough for most coins.

[BushMan]

I never imagined one would be so cheap to make you pay $50 for it.

It was a petty move on HisRoyalHighness' part. I guess he wanted to fly first class! Wouldn't it be funny if a banned poster were to win the contest?

[braddick]

I think it would be fun. I'd lose as there are a ton of Collectors who would do well in this competition (Greg, you come to mind along with TRUTH and TOM and others).

 

I like the idea and come on... are you really finding fault with this?

[dakra]

I read it with interest until I found out about the prizes and the $50 fee. They need only 200 entries to recoup the prize money, what happens if they get over 200 entries?

 

More power to anyone who is going to do it...and yes, I'd put up the $50 in hopes a banned member could win it... Greg, how are your grading skills?

 

-Dave

[gmarguli]

I think it would be fun. I'd lose as there are a ton of Collectors who would do well in this competition (Greg, you come to mind along with TRUTH and TOM and others).

 

I like the idea and come on... are you really finding fault with this?

 

Finding fault with the $50 HRH wants people to pay, not the concept itself.

 

I wonder if paying money for a chance to win money would violate state laws about running an illegal lottery? I think I might just have to look into the local laws.

 

[RobertB]

I think it would be fun. I'd lose as there are a ton of Collectors who would do well in this competition (Greg, you come to mind along with TRUTH and TOM and others).

 

I like the idea and come on... are you really finding fault with this?

 

Finding fault with the $50 HRH wants people to pay, not the concept itself.

 

I wonder if paying money for a chance to win money would violate state laws about running an illegal lottery? I think I might just have to look into the local laws.

 

I'm not sure? People have cooking contests with cash prizes all the time and their results are based on 'objective' judging as well. We need a lawyer here.

[gmarguli]

More power to anyone who is going to do it...and yes, I'd put up the $50 in hopes a banned member could win it... Greg, how are your grading skills?

 

Exceptional. However, just like any new submissions to PCGS, I have no doubt that DH would stick his hand in the outcome (i.e. "See what you can do with these").

[gmarguli]

I'm not sure? People have cooking contests with cash prizes all the time and their results are based on 'objective' judging as well. We need a lawyer here.

 

Yes, but do you have to pay to enter those contests?

[RobertB]

I'm not sure? People have cooking contests with cash prizes all the time and their results are based on 'objective' judging as well. We need a lawyer here.

 

Yes, but do you have to pay to enter those contests?

 

I'm not sure. I think it's going to come down to whether or not all the monies received from the participants are being returned in prize fees. They are obviously not non-profit and definitely not tax exempt so they might be pushing it. I just put the word out for some of our fellow numismatists of the legal persuasion.

[Tradedollarnut]

I like the idea and come on... are you really finding fault with this?

 

I like it, too. If they do it in Portland, I'm in. If NGC decides to do one as well, I'll try that, also.

 

I read it with interest until I found out about the prizes and the $50 fee. They need only 200 entries to recoup the prize money, what happens if they get over 200 entries?

 

Winner take all - the $5,000 is just the minimum guarantee prize.

 

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

I wonder who "judges" the winners and by "whose" standards. Not that I don't trust HRH to be objective and honest (is that an oxymoron?).

[Tradedollarnut]

Oh, give me a break.

 

The winners are judged by who gets the closest sum total of all the grades. The coins are graded in slabs and the contestants write down their grade estimation. The object is to get the closest sum total to the assigned grades - just like the 'guess the grade' contests that used to be on this board before the favorite passtime became bashing PCGS.

[braddick]

OT3 and TDN would give Greg and TRUTH a run for the money.

 

If anything, it would make a great spectator sport!

[BillJones]

So ... It's the one who comes closer to the sum total of the grades that wins ...

 

I guess if they have two VF-30 coins, an I grade one PR-1 and the other AU-58, I'll qualify as a world-class grader.

 

If they include circulated coins, all of the REAL graders will be out very quickly. The slab grader rarely get it right for circualted material, especially the better date.

 

And as for the comment about bashing PCGS, sorry TradeDollar, but they do make an very inviting target ...

[Tradedollarnut]

Missing high is just as bad as missing low - you don't get to average out your misses. Total your misses per coin for a sum total of errors. You know what I mean.

 

Lessee....PCGS gets bashed for not trying something new, now they get bashed for trying something new. Then they get bashed for giving not enough time per grade and after that they get bashed for too much time per grade.

 

You're right.......a very inviting target......

[mark]

TDN:

 

I concur with your assesmment of PCGS bashing. I am also amused at people who complain about the short amount of time given to grade the coins in the world series. We know that a grader at PCGS grades a coin in about 10 seconds or so. My bet is that the graders at NGC (who are, in my opinion, as good as those at PCGS) probably also spend about 10 seconds on a coin. Of course, this is 10 times as long as the graders at the bottom feeding grading companies spend....

 

In any case, I think this will be a fun contest and surely exciting for the contestants!

 

Mark

[gmarguli]

Lessee....PCGS gets bashed for not trying something new, now they get bashed for trying something new. Then they get bashed for giving not enough time per grade and after that they get bashed for too much time per grade.

 

Thankfully they have you at every turn to defend them. And yes, that is what you have become lately. Everytime someone posts a negative opinion of anything PCGS you seem to be right there to take them to task for PCGS bashing.

 

They're being bashed for being greedy by charging $50 for this. Nothing more.

[braddick]

Lessee....PCGS gets bashed for not trying something new, now they get bashed for trying something new. Then they get bashed for giving not enough time per grade and after that they get bashed for too much time per grade.

 

Thankfully they have you at every turn to defend them. And yes, that is what you have become lately. Everytime someone posts a negative opinion of anything PCGS you seem to be right there to take them to task for PCGS bashing.

 

They're being bashed for being greedy by charging $50 for this. Nothing more.

Greg, actually, read the title of this Thread along with the first post. To be fair, PCGS is being bashed for more than simply charging $50. for the entrance fee. And, if PCGS is not profiting from this and the monies all go to the prizes (with $5,000.00 just being the minimum amount to be won in each catagory) then what is the problem?

 

I saw how well you graded at the "Show N Tell" party recently. You'de be likely to walk away with one of the top prizes!

(split the prize money with me and I'll split your entrance fee!)

 

[Tradedollarnut]

Thankfully they have you at every turn to defend them.

 

Actually, no - they don't. I took a three week break from this forum to see if the tone would change. If it doesn't... the break will be longer.

 

 

[gmarguli]

They're being bashed for being greedy by charging $50 for this. Nothing more.

Greg, actually, read the title of this Thread along with the first post. To be fair, PCGS is being bashed for more than simply charging $50. for the entrance fee. And, if PCGS is not profiting from this and the monies all go to the prizes (with $5,000.00 just being the minimum amount to be won in each catagory) then what is the problem?

 

I saw how well you graded at the "Show N Tell" party recently. You'de be likely to walk away with one of the top prizes!

(split the prize money with me and I'll split your entrance fee!)

 

My only problem with this is the fact that they are charging $50. If ALL the money is being given to the winners and PCGS is not making any money off this then my opinion would change of it. However, the way I read it that is not the case. If they are not making a profit on it then I'll admit my opinion was wrong.

 

I personally think the time they give is too much. I was not bashing them for this. However, for them to have a "professional section" to this contest and give so much time is pretty odd. Like I said before, put these people under pressure.

 

The $50 isn't stopping me from entering. 1) I have complete confidence in my ability to grade coins. 2) I have complete confidence that if I hit 100% on these coins DH wouldn't admit it and he'd change the "original" grades. I have no doubt that he has his hands in too much there. Next time we meet I'll show you a couple of "interesting" coins and give you a little history on them. Let's see how objective DH/PCGS can be after I tell you the stories.

[TomB]

I'll re-state what I wrote before and that is that the $50 entrance fee is a bit steep. Beyond that, I think the concept of such a grading contest is quite clever and should be done every year. I don't have a problem with them making money on the event, if that is what they want, I just think that the potential goodwill and public relations boost could have been more if there were no entrance fee. That's not bashing in any form, that's just telling my honest opinion on the subject.

 

Also, the $5,000 guarenteed prize is not a minimum prize, it is a defined prize.

 

There is one thing that puzzles me, however, and that would be the following statements found on the PCGS site.

The coins will be previously graded and encapsulated by PCGS and selected from the market by Hall and Ron Howard, PCGS director of grading.

and then

Though the coins will be in holders, there may be some no-grades and/or counterfeits.

 

As these statements are written, I would think that the first statement precludes the possibility of the second statement. Does anyone else see this?

[cointagious]

I wonder if paying money for a chance to win money would violate state laws about running an illegal lottery? I think I might just have to look into the local laws.

 

at FUN, in florida, they'll need to obtain a license from the state dept of ag & consumer affairs (ch 616 fl statutes)

[BillJones]

I think that it's a joke that PCGS would have to charge a $50 entry fee for a program that is giving them a bunch of publicity. Does a multimillion dollar corporation really have to charge $50 a head to finance their ad campaign? I think the reason for the $50 charge is to keep the riff-raff out. They want to try to limit this largely to people with some credibility as graders.

 

As for the comments about being PCGS being an easy target, the answer to that is simple. It’s got nothing to do with the $50 entrance fee. It has everything to do with the fact that PCGS treats most of their customers like dogs and that in the world of PCGS some pigs (customers) are more equal than other pigs.

 

[Tradedollarnut]

Quote from David Hall:

 

PCGS will not make any money on this deal. If less than 100 people enter a division (doubtful), we'll eat the difference and pay the $5,000. If more than 100 people enter a division, all the entry fee money goes to the winner...it's winner take all! So if 200 people enter the collector division and you win...it's $10,000 to you. The $5,000 figure is a minimum guaranteed prize!

 

 

I do like the comment regarding counterfeits and body bags - I wonder if they are going to slab some just to make it interesting?

 

 

 

 

[BillJones]

It could be an interesting test, but sometimes it's hard to tell if a coin is good or bad when it is mounted in a holder like a slab. The pastic prevents you from seeing the edge, and even the surfaces you can see are distorted at times.

[gmarguli]

Quote from David Hall:

 

PCGS will not make any money on this deal. If less than 100 people enter a division (doubtful), we'll eat the difference and pay the $5,000. If more than 100 people enter a division, all the entry fee money goes to the winner...it's winner take all! So if 200 people enter the collector division and you win...it's $10,000 to you. The $5,000 figure is a minimum guaranteed prize!

 

I don't know where that quote came from.

 

From the PCGS site: Professional Coin Grading Service will open the PCGS World Series of Rare Coin Grading in January and continue into August, offering the two eventual champions a total of $10,000 cash prizes.

 

and

 

"This is a winner-take-all competition to determine the top coin graders in the market. There will be two divisions, one for collectors and one for professional numismatists, and the winner in each category will receive $5,000 cash" David Hall, PCGS founder and president, said.

 

Nowhere does it say $5000 minimum.

 

 

What doesn't seem to add up is that the number of spots to take the test is limited according to DH. The ANA slots has been set at 15. There are 3 other testings, so 85 people need to enter those. Is seating limited or is it not? If it is limited then DH should know what the max payout is. If it is not then his statements that it is limited is wrong.

 

Maybe each of his two faces is answering the questions?

[Android]

I don't know where that quote came from.

 

Greg, DH chimed in on a thread with several additional comments including the one TDN quoted. Here it is. Grading Contest Thread

[Beijim]

Will the runners up be permitted to request a Presidential Review?