Guess the grade: 1829/7 Capped Bust 50C ~ GRADE REVEALED!

[coinman1794]

1829/7 O-101A Capped Bust half dollar.

 

The coin is problem free and has been certified. My goal is to show the nuance and complexity of grading Bust halves (and most other open collar strikes), as well as how the grading services aren't always up to the challenge. I would like to get as many opinions as possible before I reveal the results. No cheating either, for anyone who's already seen this coin! Guess away...

 

 

 

 

 

[jtryka]

My first gut feeling was high VF, but I can also see it as an XF.

[MikeInFL]

Almost Extra Fine 37.5

[murty]

I agree with the above...stretch it to xf-40

[prudden]

EF 45. If I get it right can I have it?

[Mark T]

At least VF30, probably VF35

[coinman1794]

I like these answers so far, keep 'em commin!

[TomB]

I would think that for wear alone the coin is likely an EF45, but it also is most likely graded lower than that.

[BankNote1]

VF35. or less if I had sent it in for grading. XF40 + if someone else sent it in...

[physics-fan3.14]

Well, that looks almost identical to my 1829/7 that is graded EF-40. So I'm gonna go with that.

[James_OldeTowne]

I am at VF-35.

[MunkyMan95]

XF45

[zrlevin]

XF 40

[jesbroken]

ExtwaFine45 and vewy nice at that, heh heh!

[dean1345]

I will go with VF-35 and nice original surfaces.

 

Dean

[MarkFeld]

I'm going to guess that it has a good amount of luster that is not apparent in the images and will go with AU50. Please note, I don't think it is AU, but based on the hint in the thread title and the fact that others have already guessed 35, 40 and 45, I was left with no choice.

[123cents]

I would think it should grade XF-40.

[MikeKing]

First off, that's a lovely coin, and you'll be hard pressed to find another 1829/7 with that appearance. My guess, without seeing it in person, is XF 45

[coinman1794]

Interesting range of responses. Will there be anyone else?

[MBA101]

Looks like a solid 40 to me, especially if it was submitted to NGC.

[coinman1794]

Only a handful of die varieties are consistently well struck in the Capped Bust half dollar series. Most are prone to weaknesses, and sometimes individual die varieties are notorious for weakness in certain parts of the coin. 1829/7 is frequently found with light to severe weakness on the top folds of the cap, the curls above the forehead, the cheek, and the central folds of the bust line. Often, however, everything else will be crisp. The reverse is usually sharp on the wings, and soft on the horizontal shield lines.

 

Additional examples from Heritage:

 

A fairly typical example in terms of strike (and congrats, Heritage, for actually pointing out some of the weakness):

 

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1116&Lot_No=2095

 

Better than average strike on this NGC MS61, though one still gets the impression of weakness on the cap, upper curls, cheek, and bust line:

 

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1116&Lot_No=2098

 

Strike is an important factor when grade a circulated Bust coin; the lack of detail doesn’t necessarily indicate a large amount of wear. A given coin may have weak features from a mushy strike and only a light dusting of wear overtop, lending the initial impression of a coin that has been well-worn. Thus, when faced with the task of grading an open-collar coin with striking weakness, one must be careful not to rely solely on detail to obtain an accurate grade. If the coin in question seems worn but has considerable mint luster, chances are that coin is softly struck with some much lighter wear over those areas. Yet, it can be hard to confirm this. However, if one combines knowledge of that extra luster to known striking weaknesses for a given die variety, one can develop a strong case for assigning a higher grade than what the details alone would suggest.

 

The featured 1829/7 O-101A is a typically struck example of the variety with weakness on the cap, curls above the forehead, cheek, and bust line, as well as the shield (the other features are quite crisp). Dusted over this strike weakness is what, at a glance, appears to be moderate to considerable wear, making this coin look VF30-35.

 

However, the coin has a lot of luster swirling around the fields and recessed areas (keep in mind you can’t see the luster that I can see in person). It also has sharp rims, unworn stars, very little wear on the reverse letters, and excellent, crisp details in the hair and feathers; all features that go well beyond expectations for a VF coin and make it seem out of place in a VF holder. Add to this “hunch” the known weakness of this die variety, and it is easy to make the connection and see this coin as a nice XF40.

 

I actually purchased this beautiful Capped Bust half dollar as an ANACS XF40 (small holder). Bust halves are my specialty, and I believe XF40 was the perfect grade for it, for all the reasons I have outlined. Unfortunately, I couldn’t keep it in the box with my large slabs, so I decided to send it to NGC. It sat there for 7 weeks before it eventually graded VF30! This didn’t surprise me, but only because NGC completely missed the overdate (calling it a plain 1829). That means the coin wasn’t evaluated as an 1829/7, which is known for striking weakness. NGC told me they would review it free of charge, but rather than resubmit for another chance there, I sent the coin to PCGS.

 

Last Friday, they posted a grade of 1829/7, PCGS XF45, a difference of 4 grades from NGC’s VF30. The PCGS grade is not out of line when you see the luster and general sharpness in person, but it is slightly optimistic for me, being a conservative grader.

 

So, do you now see why I thought this would be a hard coin to guess the grade of? None of the experts seem to be able grade it properly, and the “old” ANACS no longer exists! If you said VF30, you were right; if you said XF40, you were right; if you said XF45, you were right; though, as a specialist, I have rendered my opinion as to which is correct. With the number of coins going through the services on a daily basis, I cannot expect them to get these nuanced grading decisions right on the first try; it’s as simple as that. The coin is going back into my collection, where I will enjoy it immensely for its original sharpness, luster, patina, and overdate.

 

I hope this has been an educational and worthwhile read.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

An excellent analysis and writeup, Coinman. The only other thing I would point out would be the considerable weakness on the claws and denomination on the reverse, which almost seems to obliterate those features. This seems to be another characteristic of the variety. As I mentioned earlier, that coin matches my EF-40 perfectly, and that would be the grade I feel best suits this gorgeous, perfectly original, dark, choice overdate.

[Mark T]

Great write up there coinman . I am currently looking at that MS61 1829/27 on Heritage but have not yet bid. I like my Busties Au55 - Au58 but would not mind a decent MS . I do have a bid out on another Au55 1829/27 that they are offering . I actually like the Au55 you made reference to also.

 

[coinman1794]

An excellent analysis and writeup, Coinman. The only other thing I would point out would be the considerable weakness on the claws and denomination on the reverse, which almost seems to obliterate those features. This seems to be another characteristic of the variety. As I mentioned earlier, that coin matches my EF-40 perfectly, and that would be the grade I feel best suits this gorgeous, perfectly original, dark, choice overdate.

 

Yes, I'm glad you pointed that out. I left it out because, while 50C, the claws, and the branch tend to strike up softly on the O-101 and 101A, this isn't as frequently seen on the O-102, which pairs a different reverse die with the 1829/1827 obverse die. But, if you have the 101 dies, then that is a spot to watch closely.

 

[coinman1794]

Great write up there coinman . I am currently looking at that MS61 1829/27 on Heritage but have not yet bid. I like my Busties Au55 - Au58 but would not mind a decent MS . I do have a bid out on another Au55 1829/27 that they are offering . I actually like the Au55 you made reference to also.

 

I realy like the PCGS-55 that I linked; it reminds me of my coin. I don't like the NGC MS61 very much, however; it's not as original and has too much friction for me.

[murty]

Excellent write-up coinman.You have indeed added to my education of Capped Bust Half Dollars. Much appreciated.

[MBA101]

it pays to know your stuff and call out the grading company when you think they are under (or over) grading a coin. That coin looks almost exactly like my O-102 XF 40 in terms of wear, and mine IS in an NGC holder.

[BankNote1]

Interesting thread Coinman. I still think the piece is VF35 though! I am stubborn. ...

[coinman1794]

Oh, I agree, it's completely VF-able from the pictures. You get to see the glossy luster in person though, and knowing the variety I'm sure the wear is actually rather light.