A quick MS70 experiment for those that don't think it turns copper blue

[kryptonitecomics]

This took me all of two minutes to perform

 

I know that with red copper....a small cleaning with MS70 can simply produce a cleaner, redder looking cent, but with RB and Brown copper especially...the application of MS70 can severly alter the color and overall look of a cent. I used a 1957 Brown Cent that was straight out of an original mint set and I did my best to keep the lighting the same for both shots.

 

All I did was swab the obverse and the reverse of the cent a few times and it immediatly started turning a purple blue in appearance so I rinsed the coin in distilled water and patted dry. The reverse which had some nice sunset toning now looks pink with purple highlights. The obverse was very interesting because it looked mark free in the image...to the point of me questioning if I had just ruined a nice MS67BN cent.....but once the thick skin was removed.....quite a few marks including a good size hit on the chin were noticable. I think this was a good experiment for two reasons.....it clearly showed that in the case of Brown copper....MS70 can indeed change the color to Blue....and just as importantly....it shows what can be hiding on the surface of a coin underneath a thick layer of toning.

 

For anyone that thinks there are two coins...just look at the rim nick to the right of the date.....it's exactly the same on both coins....but most of the other marks are not visable on the toned coin (thumbs u

 

 

 

[realone]

I just wanted to add , that the hit on the chin shows up equally in both photos. To me the cleaned coin looks cleaned unfortunately, all the toning and originality has been removed and as you clearly stated the color has dramatically changed. Why would anyone think of using this stuff is beyond me, the coin looks dramatically worse now.

[kryptonitecomics]

I just wanted to add , that the hit on the chin shows up equally in both photos. To me the cleaned coin looks cleaned unfortunately, all the toning and originality has been removed and as you clearly stated the color has dramatically changed. Why would anyone think of using this stuff is beyond me, the coin looks dramatically worse now.

 

 

I agree it looks much worse and the reverse certainly has a dead giveaway pink tint to it so I know it would get bagged. Depending on the outcome...I can see how some of these get holdered...even if this isn't one of those cases. I will be trying the same experiment on a mint set toned nickel and we will see if MS70 has any effect on nickel.... (thumbs u

[physics-fan3.14]

Haha. Blue copper. I'm not going anywhere near that.

[stev32k]

I'm sure the coin was blue all along you just removed the layer of varnish that was hiding its true color. I believe that is what one of the best known cent experts said when he turned up a large group blue/purple & pink proof Indian head cents.

[kryptonitecomics]

I'm sure the coin was blue all along you just removed the layer of varnish that was hiding its true color. I believe that is what one of the best known cent experts said when he turned up a large group blue/purple & pink proof Indian head cents.

 

Yes I have heard that one as well

[MikeInFL]

I'm sure the coin was blue all along you just removed the layer of varnish that was hiding its true color. I believe that is what one of the best known cent experts said when he turned up a large group blue/purple & pink proof Indian head cents.

 

Stev32k, I distinctly remember the "large group" as a single coin, and would respectfully request you show me evidence of this "group". Thank you...Mike

 

p.s. I searched for the post ATS and was unable to find it.

[braddick]

I thought most, if not just about all of the 'blue Indians' were proofs. You used a mint state coin.

 

Now, if you have the same results with a cheapie proof Lincoln cent, I'd be impressed (as I honestly don't think you will be able to do so using the technique you styled above on your 1957 Lincoln).

 

I believe you're missing one or two key elements to pull it off with proof copper coins, but we'll see. I could be proven wrong.

[Coindude]

I've got some cheap proof Lincolns... some MS70 and a camera... Let's see what happens.

[pendragon1998]

I'd suggest doing only half of each side, so that lighting can be comparable in the before and after image.

[bsshog40]

I have never had any luck with trying to dip copper. Pink is about the only color you get from these after cleaning and they also have sort of a gummy feel to them. Most likely a reaction from the dip and copper.

[Coindude]

I'd suggest doing only half of each side, so that lighting can be comparable in the before and after image.

Good call Mr. Dragon!

[kryptonitecomics]

I thought most, if not just about all of the 'blue Indians' were proofs. You used a mint state coin.

 

Now, if you have the same results with a cheapie proof Lincoln cent, I'd be impressed (as I honestly don't think you will be able to do so using the technique you styled above on your 1957 Lincoln).

 

I believe you're missing one or two key elements to pull it off with proof copper coins, but we'll see. I could be proven wrong.

 

If I had a proof IHC that was BN....I think it can and would be easily duplicated.....in a red or red brown proof Lincoln....I don't think it would. Your comparing apples to oranges....and I think it will be extremely difficult to find a brown proof copper lincoln? Plus if I had a descent proof IHC...I wouldn't want to experiment on it

[Coindude]

I have never had any luck with trying to dip copper. Pink is about the only color you get from these after cleaning and they also have sort of a gummy feel to them. Most likely a reaction from the dip and copper.

Bobby, if you dip copper into EZ-est or whatever it's called today, then yes, it will turn peach or pink. Very unnatural.

 

So, I did the experiment using MS70. Here are the results. Hopefully they aren't too disappointing because I only left the coin dipped for an hour or two. I knew it was going to do this because essentially this is a repeat experiment for me, although I've never done half a coin, which was an excellent idea by the Dragon! When you look at the pictures, you'll note that some of the chemical crept up the coin even though only half , maybe a little more on the reverse was exposed to the chemical... cause it was tilted. Anyhow, enjoy, and sorry for the large pictures because I didn't want to crop them for full enjoyment. Nothing other than a crop was done to the pictures and they are very close to real life.

 

And just for reference, most of the purple doesn't show up until the coin is rinsed and dried. Hope I didn't ruin he suspense! Sorry for the slightly out of focus pictures, I forgot to use the timer!

 

[bsshog40]

I've never used MS70. I thought it was about the same as EZ-Zest.

[jman425]

Try putting the MS70 treated coin on a stovetop and apply some heat.

[stev32k]

I'm sure the coin was blue all along you just removed the layer of varnish that was hiding its true color. I believe that is what one of the best known cent experts said when he turned up a large group blue/purple & pink proof Indian head cents.

 

Stev32k, I distinctly remember the "large group" as a single coin, and would respectfully request you show me evidence of this "group". Thank you...Mike

 

p.s. I searched for the post ATS and was unable to find it.

 

The coins showed up all over. Anaconda had several on their web site, there were multiples showing up on ebay. DLRC even had two or three. There were several lengthy threads ATS on the subject.

[MikeInFL]

I recall the threads, and I recall the coins. I'm just saying the "laquer" excuse was for a single coin, as I remember things.

[James_OldeTowne]

Call me crazy if you must, but in the "before" image, it appears as if there already is underlying blue iridescence beneath the coppery-brown patina.

[MAULEMALL]

I recall the threads, and I recall the coins. I'm just saying the "laquer" excuse was for a single coin, as I remember things.

I believe Mr Snow said it was more than a single coin. If I remember correctly he said that it was part of a collection that had been laquered.

[MAULEMALL]

Call me crazy if you must, but in the "before" image, it appears as if there already is underlying blue iridescence beneath the coppery-brown patina.

Which was Mr Snows assertion.

[stev32k]

There is no way of knowing if one man or many were removing lacquer from proof IHC to reveal beautiful blue/pink/purple toning underneath, but only one man came out with an alternate explanation of how all these coins suddenly showed up in the market.

 

I don't believe for a minute that putting lacquer on a coin would allow it to tone underneath the air tight coating. The purpose of the lacquer was to prevent toning and It apparently did a pretty good job.

 

I've only had two coins that were lacquer coated but neither showed any sign of toning. The lacquer on the surface was spider webbed with cracks, but when the coin was dipped in lacquer thinner the surface looked like it just came from the mint.

[stev32k]

It just occurred to me - has anyone ever tried to remove lacquer with MS70? I wonder if that can be done. If I were at home I would give it a try.

[kryptonitecomics]

Call me crazy if you must, but in the "before" image, it appears as if there already is underlying blue iridescence beneath the coppery-brown patina.

 

In hand I did not see any blue tint

[gmarguli]

I think this was a good experiment for two reasons.....it clearly showed that in the case of Brown copper....MS70 can indeed change the color to Blue....and just as importantly....it shows what can be hiding on the surface of a coin underneath a thick layer of toning.

 

This is pretty shocking. Someone should alert the TPG as I swear to this day they still slab blue copper - both PF and MS.

 

I'm not sure you should have posted this information here. If the coin doctors get their hands on these ultra advanced doctoring techniques, we can all kiss this hobby goodbye.

[Oldtrader3]

I have played around with MS70 and a few circulated common date cents. The results that I noticed were that, circulated coins which were brown did not change much with an application of MS70, just coins that were still somewhat mint state and were RB seemed to have the most change.

[MAULEMALL]

I think this was a good experiment for two reasons.....it clearly showed that in the case of Brown copper....MS70 can indeed change the color to Blue....and just as importantly....it shows what can be hiding on the surface of a coin underneath a thick layer of toning.

 

This is pretty shocking. Someone should alert the TPG as I swear to this day they still slab blue copper - both PF and MS.

 

I'm not sure you should have posted this information here. If the coin doctors get their hands on these ultra advanced doctoring techniques, we can all kiss this hobby goodbye.

[MarkFeld]

I think this was a good experiment for two reasons.....it clearly showed that in the case of Brown copper....MS70 can indeed change the color to Blue....and just as importantly....it shows what can be hiding on the surface of a coin underneath a thick layer of toning.

 

This is pretty shocking. Someone should alert the TPG as I swear to this day they still slab blue copper - both PF and MS.

 

I'm not sure you should have posted this information here. If the coin doctors get their hands on these ultra advanced doctoring techniques, we can all kiss this hobby goodbye.

Greg, you have a lot to offer on this and many other subjects - why not make your point without being facetious?

[kryptonitecomics]

Rick Snow has asked me to continue with the experiment by adding some oil to the coins surface....olive oil etc since I don't have blue ribbon to see if that removes the color....I will be doing that later tonight and will update the thread with new pictures.

[relicsncoins]

Hasn't this been beat to death already? Yes it appears that MS70 can alter the color of copper and yes the TPG's don't have to grade it if they don't want to, and yes, you don't have to buy it if you don't like it.

 

JJ