My CAC submission

[michael]

good luck with your second submission

 

to cac mike and keep us informed

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

Mike, I would appreciate it if you would do another posting of the results of this second CAC submission, with images, as you did for the last one. This is, if I promise to be good and won't prime Chabsentia this time about statistics or even mention them again.

[MikeInFL]

OT3, Of course I'll share the results. Also, you are free to discuss any aspect of the information I share, including the statistics produced and the validity any conclusions drawn. Take care...Mike

[CHABSENTIA]

While the sample was very small on both the results would have been skewed if one tried to compare the results of NGC to PCGS as one being less or more prone to rejections.

Again, that is simply not true. The results are the results. The confidence in the conclusion is the only thing that would change in your example (the larger the sample, the higher the confidence). Respectfully...Mike

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Yes, (and apologizing in advance for the brash response) you are missing a basic understanding of statistics along with the realization that nobody has drawn any conclusions. I've tried, twice, to explain but have failed. I will now "follow my own lead" and give up trying...Mike

 

p.s. I don't appreciate you (for the second time now) suggesting/inferring that I'm lying about how I chose the coins to submit...and to support a conclusion I never made.

 

I apologize if you thought that I was in any way inferring that anything was done to construe or skew any results. There are,however, people on these Forums who are avidly for CAC at any costs. I also realize that you are in no way one of these people.

 

I realize that you presented the results of a submission. My posts were initially directed at the person who stated that they were "surprised at the number of rejections for NGC:. I have stated numerous times that I have no horse in this CAC race.There are many reasons but the main one is a Service where "graders are not perfect and make mistakes " that are grading others that do the same.This is my personal opinion and I do not expect others to feel the same or to try and convert them either way.

 

 

My point was so that people do not see this as NGC or for that matter PCGS as being any better or any worse.There are going to be people that collect coins in slabs and have them slabbed ,They are going to have various levels of expertise.If a person has a great level of expertise then they are going to be fairly discriminate in their choices,If these fairly discriminate people are then even more discriminate of coins in their possession which they then submit to CAC then the results "should be" different then the results of people who do not possess that same high level of discrimation and submit them to CAC at random to try and qualify for a CAC sticker then I don't see how there will not be different expected results.And this is just based on the above and not on " graders who might make mistakes". This was my point on subjectivity and again is a situation for which the result will tend to depend on the different levels of expertice etc.

 

 

My next point was that without an equal number of each TPG submitted that the resutls were skewed. Not from any desire to be deliberate but from the numbers in the samples themselves.I would have been more interested in several different situations where say 300 each of PCGS and 300 each of NGC were submitted at random by the same person and what I mean at random is not checking to see which ones have nthe most likely chance of a sticker.

 

This is by no means a reflection of you individually but would put me in the direction one way or the other of grading standards as validated by CAC but only to the extent that one has less/more rejections than the other and not necessarily the validation of CAC itself.But as I said before "I have no plans to use the services of CAC nad have no horse in the race"

 

I do think that the Forums here are valuable and that the various posts except for the ones with Political content are extremely valuable and that everbody has some form of expertise to contribute and that you are in very top layer of these people.

 

 

I thank you for sharing your experience as well as the recent submission that started this thread and welcome other such revelations.You certainly couldn't compare your submissions to a novice even if they were submitted in the same TPG proportions,

 

 

We are going to have to disagree on the revelance of the size of the samples and agree that because we disagree that we will ony continue to beat a dead horse and it makes no sense to continue in that line,Nothing against you individually.

[DirtyGoldMan]

I have decided to send another group of coins.

 

 

You are a glutton for punishment.

[MikeInFL]

Just wait until you see the results from the second submission. My sense is that I'll be lucky if half of them receive a sticker, but more on that later.

[MikeInFL]

Thank you for your response, Chasbentia, I appreciate it, and I aplogize if I got the wrong idea from your prior posts. Have a nice weekend.....Mike

[MikeInFL]

I'm happy to report the coins from the first submission arrived safely back from the CAC this afternoon, and have been returned to their home in my SDB.

 

All told, the coins were mailed to Mark on 8/6 and arrived back to me today, 8/22, or 16 days from beginning to end.

 

Overall, while disappointed in the results (and myself), I am extremely satisifed by the services provide by Mark and the CAC, and while I realize these services are not for everyone, I would strongly recommend them to anyone considering them. I have found the entire experience very eye-opening and extremely valuable in furthering my continuing numismatic education...Mike

[leeg]

The first submission was so eye-opening, I have decided to send another group of coins. Here is the second submission:

 

# Year Type Denom. Grade TPG

 

 

27 1948-D Washington Quarter MS 66* NGC

 

 

Again, (in hopes of being as impartial as possible) I chose the most expensive coins remaining in my collection. I will update this thread with more information as it becomes available....Mike

 

 

I remember this one to be an amazing example!

[IGWT]

The first submission was so eye-opening, I have decided to send another group of coins. Here is the second submission.

This is getting better and better!

[CTcollector1]

 

Overall, while disappointed in the results (and myself), I am extremely satisifed by the services provide by Mark and the CAC, and while I realize these services are not for everyone, I would strongly recommend them to anyone considering them. I have found the entire experience very eye-opening and extremely valuable in furthering my continuing numismatic education...Mike

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I more or less came to the same conclusion regarding my own experience with CAC. Glad to hear you furthered your numismatic education as a result.

[jom]

I'm beginning to wonder if I should send my $10 Indian set in....

 

jom

[michael]

I'm beginning to wonder if I should send my $10 Indian set in....

 

jom

 

it all depends......................................

[CHABSENTIA]

Thank you for your response, Chasbentia, I appreciate it, and I aplogize if I got the wrong idea from your prior posts. Have a nice weekend.....Mike

 

No problem. Fot those that are Interested there is a Pro and Con editorial in the latest issue of Coin World on CAC.The one against CAC is the one here with the second highest overall Registry grade and a pretty nice collection.

 

He brings up two points among others that have not been mentioned here.

 

1.When a TPG such as NGC or PCGS grades a coin in the holder, they take it out of the holder to grade it while CAC grades the coin while in the holder even though the holder might have scratches etc.

2. PCGS and NGC have had counterfeit holders but the Stocker for CAC would be easy to counterfeit.

 

I am not going to comment one way or the other as I have no horse in this race but others can read the aticle and reach their own conclusions.

[michael]

if you go on www.caccoin.com and punch in the slab number ngc or pcgs and you can verify if the coin has been stickered

 

so the green bean faked or genuine green bean taken off the slab can still be verified