Dipping and Cleaning, what is the difference?

[Jakeblue]

I figured this would draw more attenion here than under Coin Conservation.

 

Okay, I bought a big lot with some really nice MS advertised Walking Libs and sent some of them into NGC as sort of a beginners thing. I knew that they probably would not be worth the time.

 

I also sold a few raw and kept a few.

 

The NGC graded ones came back as AU-58 and MS 62. Nice.

 

But, what got me was an email that I received from one of the buyers of the raw Walkers that stated "nice coin, but dipped just a tad too long, but I will keep it".

 

Dipped? Well, after researching, I know what means now.

 

So, I wonder why NGC did not catch the coins I sent in? Is dipping detecable? Is it all opinion? Is it considered cleaning? How do I detect a improperly cleaned coin? Maybe the buyer was wrong?

 

Yes, the coins were all in 2x2 from the same source and all looked almost exactly the same. Bright and MS looking.

 

I am glad that I have started reading more on these boards as I am learning quite a bit. But, I am also learning that it appears that many, many older silver coins have been "helped" at one time or another. I also read where it was acceptable to clean coins until the 70's.

 

I am to the point where if it not graded by the big boys, then it will not be bought by me. They may not be 100% accurate, but probably are the best.

 

 

 

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

Dipped coins are not always rejected (really, hardly ever rejected) by NGC or PCGS for grading. There are many, many thousands of dipped coins in NGC and PCGS holders. I'd say that most of the blast white classic coins in their holders have been dipped at one time or another.

[MarkFeld]

Dipping is a form of cleaning. However, if it is performed properly and the coin is rinsed/neutralized correctly afterwards, it is acceptable to many, though not all collectors and dealers. I have seen many very high grade coins (for example MS and PR67's and 68's) which appeared to have been or were obviously dipped.

 

If a coin is over-dipped and/or inadequately rinsed/neutralized afterwards, it very well might receive a no-grade at a grading company.

 

Sometimes dipping is detectable and other times not. Depending upon the coin type and age, as well as its appearance and certain characteristics, it's often a matter of an educated guess.

 

Chances are excellent that NGC didn't miss the dipping - they merely found it to be acceptable.

[TomB]

Dipping has historically been the most widespread accepted form of coin doctoring and even today most collectors accept dipped coins without second thought. Additionally, the TPGs accept dipped coins everyday and they know many of these coins have been dipped. Lastly, even dipped circulated coinage has a following among collectors and is often spotted in TPG holders. One of the differences between dipping and cleaning, as the terms are used in numismatics, is that dipping does not leave telltale surface scratches on the coin whereas a more harsh cleaning will leave these marks.

 

Personally, I go out of my way to avoid dipped coins, but others gravitate to them and that is their prerogative

[Jakeblue]

So, I buy a raw "blast white" or "lustrous" MS Morgan CC and it probably has been dipped, but hopefully in such a way that the graders approve.

 

That sounds like a measured risk.

 

While being graded by a big TPG confirms value; I guess if it is not graded but carries significant eye value, then it would be an individual decision and a risky one at that.

 

Too bad the coins can't talk, it would sure would help. Can't really afford to make consistent thousand dollar plus mistakes.

 

Thanks for the info as the education continues...

 

 

[bsshog40]

Mark and Tom make good points. I'm not too offended by dipped coins as it has helped conserve coins that needed it. Over-dipping tho' can make a coin unacceptable. The "know where the stopping point is" is what people need to keep in mind when trying to conserve a coin with dipping.

[James_OldeTowne]

My take is that dipping is one of many forms of cleaning. And most forms of cleaning will be accepted by grading services if performed to a degree that it is not obvious. I know of many, many instances of coins cleaned with baking soda that were certified at high grades, and this is true also of dipped coins, of course. It's like anything else, if performed in moderation, it is not necessarily a problem. Excess is the problem.

[MarkFeld]

My take is that dipping is one of many forms of cleaning. And most forms of cleaning will be accepted by grading services if performed to a degree that it is not obvious. I know of many, many instances of coins cleaned with baking soda that were certified at high grades, and this is true also of dipped coins, of course. It's like anything else, if performed in moderation, it is not necessarily a problem. Excess is the problem.

James, some forms of cleaning, and dipping, in particular, will be accepted by grading services even if performed to a degree that IS obvious.

[James_OldeTowne]

My take is that dipping is one of many forms of cleaning. And most forms of cleaning will be accepted by grading services if performed to a degree that it is not obvious. I know of many, many instances of coins cleaned with baking soda that were certified at high grades, and this is true also of dipped coins, of course. It's like anything else, if performed in moderation, it is not necessarily a problem. Excess is the problem.

James, some forms of cleaning, and dipping, in particular, will be accepted by grading services even if performed to a degree that IS obvious.

 

Good point!

[WoodenJefferson]

 

30 years ago, and advertisement in COINage from 1976

 

Of course the magazine editors did not condone the cleaning of coins but it was still a widely practiced method of what was called restoration.

[JKK]

I remember coin shops when I was a kid selling straight phosphoric acid as a coin cleaner. Not sure what molarity, but I assume pretty weak.

[Arizonadesertrat]

Dipping 'a tad too long' can have another consequence---removal of too much surface metal during a long dip will attenuate the coin's luster. This loss of luster can cause a coin to be downgraded. I have seen mint-state Morgan dollars graded as low as 61 because of this.