HTT's & CWT's Token collectors...

[coinsarefun]

What do you think the future holds for collecting tokens?

How popular are they?

 

Any suggestions or guidelines to follow?

 

What about Conder tokens? Popular/not popular?

 

I have only collected tokens a short time and would like to get some more knowledge

about this fascinating area in numismatics.

 

Please shed some light on this subject or me.

 

 

 

 

Stefanie

 

[thebeav]

Hi Stefanie,

I believe the future of token collecting looks great. Of course, all we have is past history to go by. When I see how the price of CWT's has increased the past few years, (especially the record price for the one with the dog on it), I have to think that the only way to go is up.

It seems to me, that since the advent of the internet, and flea-bay, now that anyone, anywhere can get anything they want, coins and the like have never been stronger.

You need to get some good books on the subject. There are quite a few. The Fuld book for Cwt's for example.

I know there are some big time token guys on here and they'll chime in. Board is maybe a little quiet for the holiday.

I think you're onto a great area of numismatics, and one where bargains will still abound.

Good luck and enjoy the hobby !

 

Paul

[danno26]

I started collecting CWT's a few years ago as a lower cost alternative to US coins. I'm pretty surprised at how much the rarities go for now. As for the future, who knows. Lincoln's birthday may stir up some more interest in the Civil War and items related. As for guidelines, collect what you like. I collect CW storecards from my home state. Probably about 100 different varieties and I'm not close. When buying CWT's, I find availability is the key. If you pass a rarity because of condition, you may not have another chance for years. The Fuld books are the way to go. A new storecard book is coming soon.

 

While I don't collect Conder tokens, I received an auction catalog from Numismatic Auctions, LLC which had a collection of them. The tokens themselves appear well made with interesting subjects. Some were listed in Proof! with modest estimates.I put in a couple bids, but as I haven't heard anything, I will assume I failed. I believe the book on this subject is by Dalton&Hamer.

[Conder101]

I've collected Conder tokens since 1992. In 92 when I started common Unc Conder tokens could be purchased for around $18 to $22 apiece. (red Uncs maybe $25 to $30) Proofs were available in the $80 - $100 range. In 97 when I got into them seriously common Uncs were $25 and Proofs were $100 to $125. Ten years later it is very difficult now to find any Unc Conder under $100,red ones are $150 to $180. Proofs have lagged somewhat and are still to be found sometimes in the $200 to $225 range. (In a case of "If I had only known then what I know now." or "How could I have been so stupid?", back when I started collecting in 1972 Unc Conders were $2. Red ones were $3. And what was I chasing? circ Jefferson nickels. Even with my minuscule financial resources at the time I could have put away two or three dozen uncs away each year, and with in a few years I could have been stashing back a few hundred a year. Except fr the fact that they would have died up fairly quickly if I had tried.)

 

If you don't insist on uncs they are still within the reach of collectors of smaller means. AU's are $30 to $50, XF's $20 to $25, VF about $18, F about $10.

 

* Now those are the prices for the commons and most of the ones rated as scarce. For R and RR shift up one and two price levels positions respectively. Meaning a VF common or scarce would be $18, an R in the same grade $20 to $25, and a RR $30 to $50. A RRR on the other hand is a different matter and ther is no way of really predicting what they will bring.

 

Conders still have a lot of potential for further increase (unfortunately). The collector base is still relatively small (There are only around 350 members of the Conder Token Collectors Club which is almost totally US based.) But the tokens are scarce enough that a small increase in the collector base translates into a large change in prices. (the club increased 50% in size during the period when the prices quadrupled) Mintage on many of the tokens was rather small with an average size issue being one long ton of tokens or 103,040 coins or about 214 pounds in British currency. Many issues were only a couple hundredweight 5,152 tokens (ten British pounds) per cwt. These tokens were copper, not a precious metal, and they weren't real money. Survival rates probably have not been real good. One thing that shows the potential for future growth is that there has not been a price separation yet between common and scarce tokens.

 

* Rarity scale for Conders compared to the Sheldon rarity scale

Common ........R-3 or lower

Scarce............R-4

R....................R-4+ to R5

RR..................R-5 to R-6

RRR................R-7

 

 

[supertooth]

Stefanie---- As you will remember, I am a Walker collector mostly. But, over 50 years, one acquires a few of almost anything along the way. So it is with CWT and the like.

 

I had a Fuld book----but it is only one of what is now many books. About 3-4 years ago, I ran into a lady on Ebay that was selling a 1795 dollar. In one email, I knew that she knew nothing of coins. In one email, she told me later that she knew that she could trust me. After we got her 1795 dollar straightened out---and countless other emails sent and received---I started to get coins from her. We both live in Maryland---she just started to send them. Rather than try to buy them, I thought it would be neat to see how much money that I could make for her on Ebay. So, I would grade everything---write the listings----ship the coins back---and she would sell them. She had only a few Walkers----so I was really never really tempted.

 

Anyway, I found out she had 4 girls---really DID need the money---and I was having fun doing it. All of a sudden along comes these 4 CWT. I knew what they were----that I had NEVER seen the likes of them before----and figured that they were rare---as they were not listed in anything that I had book wise. So, I write the lady----tell her what I am up to---she tells me to do whatever---as she would have sold them to me for 50 cents apiece.

 

Well, I'll try to be short here. It took me a full year to finally get them into a Heritage auction in Baltimore. I had to really play every card that I knew how to play to get them into NGC slabs. I even had to send emails to Q,David Bowers himself----he was MOST understanding and kind. At any rate, all 4 were either R8 or R9 tokens. I had bought 4 separate token books to find them and to attribute them---before NGC and Mr. Bowers would help me. In the end, those 4 coins sold for over 4 thousand dollars. The lady needed the bucks---and I was thrilled. To this day, we still communicate---and she sends me a Mass card at Easter and Christmas. No better reward than to have a person pray for you. It has been one of the highlights of my Numismatic career.

 

So, you just NEVER know what you might find---or how much fun you might have along the way----meet some wonderful folks---collect some wonderful coins. Some of the ones that you have posted have been such examples. You are certainly on the right track. Bob [supertooth]

[cpm9ball]

Stefanie---- As you will remember, I am a Walker collector mostly. But, over 50 years, one acquires a few of almost anything along the way. So it is with CWT and the like.

 

I had a Fuld book----but it is only one of what is now many books. About 3-4 years ago, I ran into a lady on Ebay that was selling a 1795 dollar. In one email, I knew that she knew nothing of coins. In one email, she told me later that she knew that she could trust me. After we got her 1795 dollar straightened out---and countless other emails sent and received---I started to get coins from her. We both live in Maryland---she just started to send them. Rather than try to buy them, I thought it would be neat to see how much money that I could make for her on Ebay. So, I would grade everything---write the listings----ship the coins back---and she would sell them. She had only a few Walkers----so I was really never really tempted.

 

Anyway, I found out she had 4 girls---really DID need the money---and I was having fun doing it. All of a sudden along comes these 4 CWT. I knew what they were----that I had NEVER seen the likes of them before----and figured that they were rare---as they were not listed in anything that I had book wise. So, I write the lady----tell her what I am up to---she tells me to do whatever---as she would have sold them to me for 50 cents apiece.

 

Well, I'll try to be short here. It took me a full year to finally get them into a Heritage auction in Baltimore. I had to really play every card that I knew how to play to get them into NGC slabs. I even had to send emails to Q,David Bowers himself----he was MOST understanding and kind. At any rate, all 4 were either R8 or R9 tokens. I had bought 4 separate token books to find them and to attribute them---before NGC and Mr. Bowers would help me. In the end, those 4 coins sold for over 4 thousand dollars. The lady needed the bucks---and I was thrilled. To this day, we still communicate---and she sends me a Mass card at Easter and Christmas. No better reward than to have a person pray for you. It has been one of the highlights of my Numismatic career.

 

So, you just NEVER know what you might find---or how much fun you might have along the way----meet some wonderful folks---collect some wonderful coins. Some of the ones that you have posted have been such examples. You are certainly on the right track. Bob [supertooth]

 

Wonderful story, Bob! It's people like you who give coin collecting a good name.

 

Chris

[jesbroken]

Wonderful story, Bob! It's people like you who give coin collecting a good name.

 

Chris

 

It's people like Bob who give people a good name. Great job.

Jim

[farthing]

I agree with Conder. I started collecting Conder tokens in a very small way back 7-8 years ago and switched nearly completely to them 4-5 years ago. The price increase since then has been amazing, and I believe there is still a great future for them (which is NOT the reason I collect Conder tokens). These days I routinely get outbid on eBay, it seems that the price platform keeps moving higher.

 

I only wish I had made the migration from British coins sooner, I remember seeing Conder tokens for sale on eBay back in the late 90's for very small amounts but always passed on them.

[thebeav]

That is a wonderful story Bob.

Kudos to you !

You are quite correct on the Mass cards too !

It doesn't get any better.

 

Paul