I ICG Graded coins

[johnincalifornia-migration]

I made the same mistake that many people have made by purchasing coins over the years from Home Shopping Network that were graded by ICG as Perfect 70's. These were graded by the old team of graders before they all left for the ANACS team. I sent 6 coins to PCGS for Crossover and went 0 for 6. They wouldn't even crossover the 1999-S Silver Delaware or Pennsylvania Statehood quarters to a PR69 from PR70 DCAM. The other 4 they did cross to PR69's but it destroyed the inflated values that PCGS has put on those PR70 DCAM 1999-S Silver Statehood quarters. HSN refuses to take them back because they are not in the original packaging, but the coins were supposedly certified by ICG and guaranteed to be 70's. I am going to send the other coins I purchased back to ICG for regrading and quality control to see what their new team of graders think. Anybody else have problems with ICG graded coins and any suggestions as to how I can go about retrieving the thousands of dollars foolishly spent on coins sold by Mr. Mezack from the HSN coin show? Silly me!!! I actually believed his spiel......

[MunkyMan95]

If this was recently, I would contact my credit card company and try to get my money back that way. HSN will not issue you a refund, and ICG is not at fault. Their grading is an opinion of the coin, and PCGS may have a differing opinion. In general, ICG is somewhat lax on grading, and PCGS more strict.

 

If only you had done some research before buying...

[TomB]

The working definition of all grades are somewhat different from company to company and one must understand what these grades mean before purchasing. While ICG is not a "bad" company, they do give out the 70 grade far more often than PCGS. However, you bought a product described as PF70DCAM by ICG and not a product described as PF70DCAM from PCGS. HSN sold you what they promised and ICG likely provided product that met their grading criteria. Lastly, PCGS has a written policy to reject all coins submitted for crossover at MS70 or PF70DCAM unless the submitter specifically states that PCGS may remove the coin prior to grade determination and to then certify at any grade.

[gmarguli]

I made the same mistake that many people have made by purchasing coins over the years from Home Shopping Network that were graded by ICG as Perfect 70's. These were graded by the old team of graders before they all left for the ANACS team.

 

As I understand it, the grader that loved to give out the PF70 grade at ICG left their company long before the ANACS/ICG change. ICG was much more strict on giving out the PF70 grade after he left. Not as strict as PCGS, but more strict.

 

 

I am going to send the other coins I purchased back to ICG for regrading and quality control to see what their new team of graders think.

 

Save your money. Trust me on this, do not even bother doing this as they will not be downgraded.

 

 

Anybody else have problems with ICG graded coins and any suggestions as to how I can go about retrieving the thousands of dollars foolishly spent on coins sold by Mr. Mezack from the HSN coin show? Silly me!!! I actually believed his spiel......

 

I'm not sure there is a problem with ICG graded coins. There may be a problem with the price you paid versus marketplace value, but the coins are likely fine for the grade. Best advice is to just suck it up and move on. Sell the coins for whatever you can get and consider it an expensive lesson.

[Conder101]

but the coins were supposedly certified by ICG and guaranteed to be 70's.

And by their standards they probably were 70's, but you threw the guarantee away when you had them removed from the holders.

 

Anybody else have problems with ICG graded coins and any suggestions as to how I can go about retrieving the thousands of dollars foolishly spent on coins sold by Mr. Mezack from the HSN coin show?

Any that are still within their return period you can send back, but I'm afraid there is very little you can do about the others

[James_OldeTowne]

You have, unfortunately, been stuck for a lot of money. I'm afraid your recourse options are severely limited, as there is no way for you to prove that the coins "aren't" 70s. After all, the company that graded them used their standards, not "PCGS standards".

 

I am saddened by the fact that you unfortunately did not have appropriate information at hand prior to making your purchase from HSN. You'll almost certainly have to chalk this one up as a very expensive lesson.

 

[Houston Investor]

70 is how a lot of these coins come from the mint. If a coin is really a 70, who's holder its in should not really matter much. This Modern TPG stuff becomes absurd when people start debating that PCGS's concept of perfect is worth more than ICG's and then shell out good money in grading fees to switch over.

 

I have numerous ICG 70's (my bullion portfolio) which are perfect enough for me and I certainly would not waste my time or money to get them in someone elses holder. I essentially picked these up at CDN Bid plus about what it cost to get them graded. They are fun coins to buy.

 

There's a lot of confusion by people looking at scans of 70's, seeing stuff thats on the holder (not the coin) and then using that as an example - "well TPG Service xxxx coins are liberally graded 70's and that seller is a jerk." I also think certain price guides way over inflate the value of 70's and in reality the buyer who is going to pay "pie in the sky" prices for that stuff is much rarer than the coins themselves.

 

People need to take responsibility and do their own price research on this stuff. The prices realized at Teletrade are a good source. Otherwise, if they get ripped, their going to be paying some tuition.

[MikeKing]

I too am sorry you had this unfortunate incident, and financial loss always makes it difficult to consider it a good learning experience. But the reality is that many of us have in one way or another experienced significant losses for various reasons, in the coin collecting game, so don't feel too alone with this.

 

One thing about grading companies is that grading is both subjective and objective, and therefore there will be a variation between them. Also, even within a given company, there is not 100% consistency in giving any grade, so if you crack a PF 70 out of a PCGS holder on monday and send it back on tuesday, it may be graded a 69 for all you know. This is VERY important to understand, as simple as it may sound, I repeat...it is VERY important to understand, in order to not misinterpret your risks when putting your trust in any given TPG. Not that they are untrustworthy, it's simply the nature of the beast...remember...grading is both objective and subjective. Graders are not computers, and also, there is too much variance and nuance on coins to preclude these kinds of things.

 

Now, about the TV program. When they say you cannot return something after it's out of it's package, you have to understand that once a coin is broken out of it's holder, the grade 'guarantee' evaporates, for all the TPG's, and also, for the company that sells the coin, if out of it's holder, is subject to damage, and therefore should not be accepted for return.

 

PF 70 or MS 70, to me, as common as they are nowadays with these modern coins, is still an unachievable grade, because nothing is perfect. Of course, that is just my dumb opinion.

 

So your concerns are all valid, but now you see the way things work in the coin trade, and right or wrong, you definitely learned a lot, and I'm sure you will not do it again...I hope! The more we learn, the more realistic our expectations become.

[CHABSENTIA]

I too am sorry you had this unfortunate incident, and financial loss always makes it difficult to consider it a good learning experience. But the reality is that many of us have in one way or another experienced significant losses for various reasons, in the coin collecting game, so don't feel too alone with this.

 

One thing about grading companies is that grading is both subjective and objective, and therefore there will be a variation between them. Also, even within a given company, there is not 100% consistency in giving any grade, so if you crack a PF 70 out of a PCGS holder on monday and send it back on tuesday, it may be graded a 69 for all you know. This is VERY important to understand, as simple as it may sound, I repeat...it is VERY important to understand, in order to not misinterpret your risks when putting your trust in any given TPG. Not that they are untrustworthy, it's simply the nature of the beast...remember...grading is both objective and subjective. Graders are not computers, and also, there is too much variance and nuance on coins to preclude these kinds of things.

 

Now, about the TV program. When they say you cannot return something after it's out of it's package, you have to understand that once a coin is broken out of it's holder, the grade 'guarantee' evaporates, for all the TPG's, and also, for the company that sells the coin, if out of it's holder, is subject to damage, and therefore should not be accepted for return.

 

PF 70 or MS 70, to me, as common as they are nowadays with these modern coins, is still an unachievable grade, because nothing is perfect. Of course, that is just my dumb opinion.

 

So your concerns are all valid, but now you see the way things work in the coin trade, and right or wrong, you definitely learned a lot, and I'm sure you will not do it again...I hope! The more we learn, the more realistic our expectations become.

 

Exactly. I differ a little on the T.V. Program/s. Their prices are over inflated to begin. I have seen these programs tell people what a great deal they are getting and can't get any cheaper anyplace else when the same year grade and same holder is cheaper on EBay. I have seen them say such things as " The price today is $199.00 but I guarantee you that a few years from now it will be selling for $1500.00 etc".

 

Some of their spiels are misleading.Many inflate the prices and when they offer a Sale the prices are still inflated.