grading crossover....

[G-Myth]

just curious as to coins holding the same grade for crossovers.

 

TPG1 to TPG2......which companies crossover the best?

[bsshog40]

I'm presuming it would depend on the coin.

[cpm9ball]

I'm presuming it would depend on the coin.

 

You needn't presume, Bobby. It does!

 

Chris

[World Colonial]

It would not only depend upon the coin but the grading service. If someone is talking about NGC and PCGS or vice versa, that is one thing. If it is ANACS or ICG to NGC or PCGS, it is another. And if it includes trying to cross-over a "bargain" purchase in a third world coin holder (anyone not mentioned in the above list), it is something completely different from the first two instances. I would place the odds in the latter category as generally very low.

[Oldtrader3]

I do not try and cross anything at PCGS without cracking it first. NGC has been fair with me about crossing grades even on Brand-X coins, but IMHO, PCGS does not maintain a level playing field.

[Coin]

I have not had enough to establish a pattern , however , I have had ICG upgraded in NGC holders and had SEGS down-graded as not having FBL , but same grade in NGC holders ...PCGS to NGC about 50/50 with same designations . I have not crossed any NGC to PCGS ( but that is a personal choice as to my preference to NGC merit grading versus PCGS net-grading , not to hoping for higher or lower grading ) .

So , you can see that I have not the volume to establish any kind of way of saying that one will upgrade a coin from another service more frequently than not , but what I can say , in my opinion , is that it is going to be primarily based upon the coin , and whether or not PCGS had 'net-graded' a coin and if NGC can see the same merits for it to keep or up-grade the same grade level. Sorry if that does not help very much , it is all I got... as I have only had a few that I thought were worth the trouble to send in for cross-over.

[World Colonial]

Agreed. My comments were based upon the general perception of the marketplace and the coins I have personally seen in other holders and in the bottom rung, I think there is a wide variation but most of it of low quality.

 

The perception problem is the same as the chicken and egg argument. NGC and PCGS are viewed as the best grading services and since they are, the most expensive and better quality coins get submitted to them. And it is very difficult or impossible for a new grading service or one with a weak reputation to change that by getting better coins in their holders because the market places a discount on them (generally) which is why few people will submit to them in the first place. And those that do, especially with US coins, are very likely to get crossed-over to NGC or PCGS if the coin has any real value. Its potentially free money.

 

But while there are or may be some good coins in the bottom tier grading service holders, far more likely is the problem coin that will either not grade at all or get graded many points lower. In the latter case though, it still could be worthwhile to do so if it would cross over at all. One personal example of mine is an 1874 South Africa Burgess Pond I saw on eBay in an SEGS AU slab. I believe they net graded because it was "mount removed" but the coin probably would have sold for more even in an NCS holder. I should have bought it and taken the chance. It was cheap even at $1000.

[James_OldeTowne]

I have never tried to cross over a thing, not even for a customer. However, the way I see it, TPG grading is too inconsistent to be even close to predictable. The standards move up and down, and up and down, and sometimes problem coins get bagged, and sometimes they don't, and then there's the "political grading" that comes into play with registry-level grades, etc etc etc. Way too many factors, many of which have frankly little numismatic value to me, come into play to make your question straightforward.

 

So, I wish I could help, but my experience on the fringe of this issue leads me to believe there is no practical answer.

 

[kbsig106]

I sent recently a $2.5 1911 Indian, NNC graded MS-62. It checked out on their website and i picked it up for $215. I sent it off to NGC with no grade in the designation slot (big mistake, I should have put ANY). The paper app. says you must put a number, the web site does not word it as bluntly.

 

After 2 weeks the coin was sent back with No Grade - it could not grade out at MS-62 even though my "intention" was for receive any grade as long as it was in a NGC holder (ref - back to the blank designation slot). It also said the coin was "cleaned". If this is true, NNC misgraded the coin MS-62 or NGC did not crack the slab - just a visual.

 

 

So my one crossover expirence was a nightmare that has not been resolved. I'm debating sending it back with "ANY" to NGC or NCS. The cleaning part has me steamed with a NNC MS-62 grade. I did not expect it to grade out as a 62 - I was hoping for a 60 and not the results I ended up with and out $35 in fee(s). If I regrade, I'm out again - so I'm will to file this under NEVER DO AGAIN...

 

[BankNote1]

NNC as well as all of the other bottom feeder TPG's will slab just about anything cleaned, damaged, and AT. All of them over grade as well.

I doubt that the coin you have will ever make it into a NGC slab. Don't waste you money sending it into them.

In the future stay away from the bottom feeders and stay with NGC, PCGS, and ANACS, and you will do OK.

 

[lehigh96]

OK, don't take this the wrong way, but this was not a crossover problem. Your problem was that you bought a coin graded by NNC. Don't ever do that again. Here is my hierarchy of TPGS

 

1. PCGS & NGC

2. IGG & ANACS

3. Third World Slabs like SEGS, NTC, etc.

4. Homemade Slabs & NNC

 

In my experience NNC grades coins 3-5 points higher than they actually are. Therefore, if you buy an NNC coin that grades MS63 or below, you have bought either an AU coin or a problem coin like the one you have. So I will say it again, DON'T EVER BUY AN NNC GRADED COIN AGAIN. IMO an NNC coin is raw and you must grade it yourself.

[James_OldeTowne]

In my experience NNC grades coins 3-5 points higher than they actually are.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if that were true, but I find that they are often off by 10, 15, 20 points or more! I've seen polished VF coins in NNC holders ridiculously graded MS-63. They are a laughingstock.

[kbsig106]

It was a good one time thing to happen as far as gained expirence. In trying to find a positve for the coin - it does have melt value and if gold spikes I could come out only minus my fee(s). It also would look good on my wife's coin bracelet with the other 1/10's.

 

So it may not be all that bad - I just wanted to get it out of the NNC holder and really didn't have my hopes up on the grade any ways.

 

No more corssovers for me and TPG's in general - one was enough...

[lehigh96]

In my experience NNC grades coins 3-5 points higher than they actually are.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if that were true, but I find that they are often off by 10, 15, 20 points or more! I've seen polished VF coins in NNC holders ridiculously graded MS-63. They are a laughingstock.

 

James,

 

I should have been more specific. I meant they are off by 3-5 points on actual mint state coins only. For example an MS64 Mercury Dime will routinely grade MS67-68. For coins below the MS64 level as per their grade, they are routinely off by 10-20 points. They are a laughingstock, but as you can see, they continue to have a deliberate negative impact on our hobby. I can't wait until they dupe some rich guy on a non-genuine coin and he puts them out of business.

 

[G-Myth]

thanks for all the help. I know I left the question very general, I was try to get many different answers. I know the "coin" is the most important part. I was mainly looking to cross over an icg coin to ngc. If I was doing so would it be best to crack or leave in?

[jgrinz]

Well in my PERSONAL experience NGC is prejudice. I have not had ANY coins cross from a PCGS to a NGC holder at same grade.

 

I am sending in my next batch RAW .. exhumed from the holder it is in

 

[World Colonial]

Good question. I just bought a South Africa 1935 ICG AU-53 2 Shillings from Northeast Numismatics. I plan to submit it with 4 or 5 ANACS coins at some point but I will specify a minimum grade for all of them.

 

As for NNC, I am somewhat surprised that they are even a real grading service. I have only seen one large volume eBay seller offer coins in those holders and no one else. My impression was that this seller owned NNC.

[Oldtrader3]

I have never (!!) had a NGC coin cross to PCGS without a crack-out. Even when the coins were sent for review to HRH and he said they "should cross". One coin out of (5) actually crossed. These were hand picked, better date, Peace dollars bought from a well known, California dealer with concurrence from him (and my agreement) that they should cross-over to a PCGS slab. The cool-aid only flows downhill it seems!

[jackson64]

I've had no problems on crossing either way if the coin is PQ...the tough part is that they won't consider upgrades unless they or you crack it out......seems inconsistent...

 

I sent 5 coins to NGC to view as crossover( from PCGS) and with the stipulation attatched that I would also like Upgrade consideration (even at an extra fee)...I was pleasantly surprised to receive a phone call informing me that the coins' values would drop 25-30% in NGC holders if they were crossed (was floored that an NGC rep said this)

 

I said go ahead because I was very confident in the PQ quality and that they would upgrade....he then said that they cannot make a determination of an upgrade while it was still in the holder ( which I find confusing--isn't this Exactly what the do when you send a submission for regrade?)

 

In the end I got 5 coins back in new NGC holders all at the same grade.....

 

I cracked them out, sent them to PCGS and got upgrades on 3 of the 5 and 2 maintaining the same grade.....

 

The lesson---there is no answer to your question because there are no consistencies in grading from company to company and not even within the same company...it's a shoot..

 

especially sad when a 1 point difference in grade may mean as much as $5000 or more...

[BankNote1]

I have found that when crossing a PCGS coin to NGC you have to send it in twice to get an upgrade. The first time NGC crosses the PCGS coin at the same grade. Then I have to send the coin back for a re-grade to get the higher grade on the piece. When crossing a NGC coin to PCGS I still have to send it in twice. The best chance to get the coin graded is to bust it free from the holder.

[CHABSENTIA]

I sent recently a $2.5 1911 Indian, NNC graded MS-62. It checked out on their website and i picked it up for $215. I sent it off to NGC with no grade in the designation slot (big mistake, I should have put ANY). The paper app. says you must put a number, the web site does not word it as bluntly.

 

After 2 weeks the coin was sent back with No Grade - it could not grade out at MS-62 even though my "intention" was for receive any grade as long as it was in a NGC holder (ref - back to the blank designation slot). It also said the coin was "cleaned". If this is true, NNC misgraded the coin MS-62 or NGC did not crack the slab - just a visual.

 

 

So my one crossover expirence was a nightmare that has not been resolved. I'm debating sending it back with "ANY" to NGC or NCS. The cleaning part has me steamed with a NNC MS-62 grade. I did not expect it to grade out as a 62 - I was hoping for a 60 and not the results I ended up with and out $35 in fee(s). If I regrade, I'm out again - so I'm will to file this under NEVER DO AGAIN...

 

 

Wouldn't send it back to NGC. If you want it in a slab and don't care about the grade or the grading fee then send it to ANACS. They will give it a grade and "detail" it as cleaned and put it in a ANACS Holder.

[kbsig106]

I'm going to give it to my son to start his collection in a few years or give it to my wife to put in a charm. Its a real coin and I paid about 20 above spot so I'm out about $60 all together.

 

 

My first and only corssover - you live and learn. I'll stick to my raw NGC and PMG submissions - no issues there just under a year now.

 

 

Besides - gold could spike and I could break even on melt value.

 

 

 

 

[Coin]

G-Myth , I've been lucky enough to have had all my ICG coins crossover to NGC and two upgraded , but I really took the time to cull out any that I thought might have problems and did not send those. As far as whether to leave it in the ICG holder or crack it out and send it in raw , is purely up to you and the condition of the coin , just make sure you put "any" for the minimum grade if you want to have it back in the NGC holder regardless of the grade . If you have any doubt that it will bodybag , leave it in the ICG holder and keep it as is .