Which is more desirable: Jefferson SMS-67 UCAM, or SMS-68 CAM ?

[James_OldeTowne]

Coins like this are way out of my comfort zone. I'm used to cheap coins in VG/F.... If a collector wanted to collect such Jefferson Nickels, which would be the better investment? Which costs more? Thanks in advance.

 

James

[gmarguli]

If a collector wanted to collect such Jefferson Nickels, which would be the better investment? Which costs more?

 

The UCAM would cost more since it is the much rarer coin. These coins in true UCAM are rare. Grade would be secondary. I doubt you'd be able to find many people who wanted a 68CAM over a 67UCAM.

 

As for better investment, probably neither. Who is to say that tomorrow the grading services won't start grading coins with THREE sets of cameo standards. I believe they will do this sometime in the future. I don't know if they will add a LT. CAM or Extreme UCAM or what, but I think we are approaching the days when there are more than two cameo designations.

 

I'd take the 67UCAM over the 68CAM every day. In fact, I'd take a 65UCAM over a 69CAM every day.

 

Assuming you're talking about the 1966, I would expect the 67UCAM to run upwards of $1,000. For a 68CAM I would guess around $200.

 

Now, the real question: Does it have FULL STEPS?

[IrishMike]

Any of the 65-67 SMS coins in UCAM are rare and valuable. I collect the quarters only and I can tell you that UCAM's are expensive and hard to find. As far as a better investment who knows, probably neither.

[James_OldeTowne]

Stupid question on my part - demonstrates my , ahem, ignorance regarding encapsulated coins. Is NGC's "UCAM" equivalent to PCGS's "DCAM"? And ANACS has one too, I think it's "heavy frost" or something like that?

 

Sorry to sound so ill-informed...

 

What the heck, why not ask, what does ACG call it?

 

James

[Hoot]

I agree with Greg 99% . I think the more likely third category will be Lt. CAM. The ANACS designation is Hvy CAM.

 

I'm not so sure there is not fair demand for these coins. I have seen a few sell on Teletrade for fair prices. As long as the prices are below 2 grand, they seem to sell readily.

 

And yes, full steps are tough on the 1966 and 67 SMS issues.

 

Hoot

[gmarguli]

Stupid question on my part - demonstrates my , ahem, ignorance regarding encapsulated coins. Is NGC's "UCAM" equivalent to PCGS's "DCAM"? And ANACS has one too, I think it's "heavy frost" or something like that?

 

NGC's UCAM = PCGS's DCAM = ANACS's HVY CAM. Of course there are slightly differing standards among services for getting this designation, but they all mean the same thing.

 

 

What the heck, why not ask, what does ACG call it?

 

ACG uses Frosted White Cameo (FWC) which basically means the coin has a bunch of white haze on the high points which would fool only the dumbest of buyers, i.e. your typical ACG buyer.

[Leothelion]

I doubt you'd be able to find many people who'd want a 68CAM over a 67UCAM.

 

I would, at least, like to compare the two coins, if that were the case. You can't be too careful with the TGC's opinions these days. I'd certainly want to see for myself, to make that determination. The numbers game, only bring coins to the surface and the market. How many coins does a collector pass over before locating that true H, U or D Cam. Personally, the odds are far less then 100% certainty with certified coins but they do somewhat help.

 

Aside from all that, here's a new term; H, U or D Cam. It's either a HUD Cam if it's yours truely. If not! Then it's a DUH Cam.

 

Leo

 

Also, I just so happen to have a 1966 PR67 HC 5 Step SMS Jefferson nickel. I'll try to post a picture soon.

[CarlWohlforth]

SMS Jeffersons are tough in really frosty Ultra Cameo. Especially the 1965. By '67 the Mint got better at making them. In my opinion NGC's Ultra Cam is very close to PCGS's Deep Cameo. I haven't seen enough ANACS to form an opinion.

 

The '50s date Jeffs in Deep/Ultra Cameo are scarce and expensive. The SMS Ultra cam Jeffersons seem at least as scarce but are less expensive. So perhaps they really are a good value?

[DonHeath]

James,

 

I once owned a 65 Jeff that was PCGS MS67 Cam, NGC MS67 Ucam, and then PCGS MS67 Dcam. Buy one like that and you won't have to decide.

 

BTW - I didn't own it on it's last trip to PCGS, but the values were $50, $450, and $1200 respectively.

[BushMan]

James-

The populations for the Jefferson are as follows:

PCGS - DCAM

1965 @67 1

1966 @67 2

1967 @67 6

 

 

NGC - UCAM

1965 @67 2

1966 @67 2 1@68

1967 @67 11

 

I had a reference handy and thought this might help. I know nothing of these coins, yet they seem pretty darn scarce.

 

DHeath- Did your buyer cross your coin? Or, was it someone else? Did they have to crack the coin out of it's holder?

[DonHeath]

Bushman, yes the buyer crossed it in the holder.

[Leothelion]

Here's a picture of my 1966 ANACS MS67 5 step Cam. I thought earlier that it was a HC. Sorry! I will say, the contrast between the mirrors and frost is the best I've seen in a SMS Jefferson. And for you full step collectors, there is a fine line of separation between that 3rd and 4th step under the 2nd pillar.

Click to view supersized image

 

 

 

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Leo

[spy88]

Leo, that REALLY is a nice SMS 66 MS67FS you have there. As a collector of Jeffs only, I would have loved to have had that in my collection. As it is graded a MS, I know it came from a SMS mint set and not a proof set. Here is a pic of mine. Not near as nice as yours but it will have to do until I can afford to upgrade. This one is MS65 w/5-3-3-5 steps. The Monticello bldg is a weak strike and the steps have 2 hits and bridging @ pillars 2 and 3 (as usual).

But the fields and devices are very clean.

 

David

[spy88]

The reverse

[JadeRareCoin]

............. As it is graded a MS, I know it came from a SMS mint set and not a proof set. ...................David

 

David, a 1966 nickel is either a mint state coin or an SMS coin, right? There are no 1966 "proof sets". I am half-asking and half-informing, since I no nothing about modern coins.

 

With Leo's coin, we know that it came from an Special Mint Set because of the cameo. 1966 nickels struck for circulation would never have cameo devices, imho.

[gmarguli]

............. As it is graded a MS, I know it came from a SMS mint set and not a proof set. ...................David

 

David, a 1966 nickel is either a mint state coin or an SMS coin, right? There are no 1966 "proof sets". I am half-asking and half-informing, since I no nothing about modern coins.

 

With Leo's coin, we know that it came from an Special Mint Set because of the cameo. 1966 nickels struck for circulation would never have cameo devices, imho.

 

There were no official proof sets struck in 1965-1967. They made SMS sets and struck regular coinage.

[cladking]

 

David, a 1966 nickel is either a mint state coin or an SMS coin, right? There are no 1966 "proof sets". I am half-asking and half-informing, since I no nothing about modern coins.

 

With Leo's coin, we know that it came from an Special Mint Set because of the cameo. 1966 nickels struck for circulation would never have cameo devices, imho.

 

It is probably a good idea to think of an SMS strike as a mint state coin. These were struck once with new dies under higher pressure than regular issues like most mint set coins. The SMS dies did get more preparation than other mint set dies and were often polished. The presses also were apparently run at lower speeds, and some polished planchets were used. No one to my knowledge has yet devised a fool proof method to differentiate SMS strikes from others and at least some retired SMS dies were used to strike coins for circulation.

 

While there were no proof sets issued for the SMS years, rumors of proof coins from this era have long persisted. This would be expected since some of these dies were fully proof, and some of the planchets were polished. It would be easy for one of these to inadvertantly or intentionally have been struck twice. I have seen a couple such coins which appeared fully proof and have heard of perhaps a dozen others. None are cents or dimes, and most are '65 and '66.

[Leothelion]

Here's a HC 1967 that I sold recently. The two SMS coins were very comparable. And this one did not have 5 complete steps due to a struck-thru on the steps under the 2nd pillar.

Click to view supersized image

 

 

 

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Leo