choosing a grading service

[JKK]

Okay. I know this forum has ties to NGC, and I have read the WYNTK on submitting coins that get body-bagged. I've read NGC's e-book on the various reasons this happens.

 

Now I'm about ready to send some coins off to a grading service for encapsulation (I hope). There are several. The gist of the conventional wisdom I've picked up is that ANACS is soft, NGC is more likely to reject than grade, and PCGS is somewhere in the middle. That CW could be wrong.

 

Frankly, I think it's bull*spoon* to send a coin back with no grade, and I'm not eager to pay someone to do that. I can accept if they assigned the grade without encapsulating, and with a qualifier--any or all qualifiers--but 'no answer' just isn't worth paying for. At the same time, I don't want to send the coins to a service that gets no respect.

 

I'd welcome any commentary, recommended reading or corrections.

[James_OldeTowne]

At PCGS, it's either grade or no-grade. At NGC (NCS) and ANACS, at least you can get a "details" grade (and ICG does the same, now). For me, the overriding factor in the decision would be customer service, and my personal experience would lead to a choice of NGC.

[gmarguli]

ICG does the details grade now.

 

ANACS no longer does it.

 

NGC never has.

[MBA101]

At PCGS, it's either grade or no-grade. At NGC and ANACS, at least you can get a "details" grade (and ICG does the same, now). For me, the overriding factor in the decision would be customer service, and my personal experience would lead to a choice of NGC.

 

To get a details grade from NGC you need to send to NCS, don't you?

 

If you are talking about inexpensive coins, ANACS would be your most cost effective choice. They will grade everything in one submittal I believe, and their fees are the lowest of the three. Dealers from what I have been told, are not going to pay you very differently on a $100 coin that is in an ANACS, NGC, or PCGS holder. There are specific areas that PCGS commands a distinct premium. Thing is that you need to be certain that you are submitting problem free coins first. And NGC has tightened its standards a bit, but I do not think the word has completely gotten around yet.

[James_OldeTowne]

At PCGS, it's either grade or no-grade. At NGC and ANACS, at least you can get a "details" grade (and ICG does the same, now). For me, the overriding factor in the decision would be customer service, and my personal experience would lead to a choice of NGC.

 

To get a details grade from NGC you need to send to NCS, don't you?

Yes - clarification made.

[supertooth]

JKK----- Some pictures of your coins would be nice. The folks could then maybe advise you better as to where to send them for grading.

 

You can send coins first to NCS. If the coins are slabbable at NGC, then NCS will send them along to NGC for slabbing [ I think a 3 dollar fee per coin]. If the coins won't slab at NGC, then NCS can slab the coins in just a "genuine" slab---or a details graded slab. If the coin has PVC or verdigris damage, none of the major services will slab the coin. I'm pretty sure that this information is still currently correct.

 

I used to send my questionable coins to ANACS---as they would slab and give detail grades. But, if Greg is correct, then that is now being done at ICG----ICG now has most of the old ANACS graders. So, for cleaned coins and the like, it probably might be good to now use ICG. That would assure them being placed in a slab at least.

 

Give us some pictures---we can help better if we see the coins. Bob [supertooth]

 

 

[World Colonial]

I believe that the answer to your question will depend upon your reason for getting your coins slabbed.

 

Some people participate in registry sets, so NGC or PCGS would be the choice.

 

Others like me do it primarily or entirely for financial reasons. I do it to improve the marketability of my collection. I buy coins raw cheaper if possible and send them in for grading so that I can sell them for more later. I'm not collecting primarily for profit, but I'm not spending thousands of dollars to lose money in my efforts either.

 

From a marketability standpoint, NGC or PCGS are the only way to go in my opinion. For some US coins, PCGS is considered better if you can get an equivalent grade to NGC because the coins sells for more in some cases.

 

If you have a mishandled coin, you can send it in for evaluation to NCS first but this can add up. NGC fees are competitive but I find $19 a shot for World Value and $32 for World Standard expensive enough. But its still better than a BB if you are not sure.

[JKK]

Good question about the reasoning. The primary reasons are twofold: to know what the grade is through eyes more knowledgeable than my own, and to safeguard the coins in sealed holders. I really don't have any plans to sell any, though that could possibly change. Part of it also is that some were inherited from my father-in-law. I want to show the best of those proper respect. I figure to send in batches of ten or more at a time, because I don't want to mess with it unless I'm serious. Anything I'm pretty sure will get BB, I just won't send. If I wanted the coin in a Saflip with a description of what's wrong with it, I'm pretty sure I'm capable of that most times without a grading service's help.

 

I'll see what can be done on posting pics. I know scans are not favored.

[Oldtrader3]

I don't know what series you collect or how long you have been collecting, but read the WYNTK posts about ways that people have been fooled by puttied, chemically treated, thumbed, retooled, et cetera. There are many coins that have fooled many of us on this site, myself included. If you are new to the hobby your personal grading skills may need to learn some sophistication before you can always avoid being taken in by doctored coins. Coins do not have to be expensive to be doctored by some people (i.e. some dealers on Ebay).

 

Recently, NGC has become more strict in grading. I feel that they are equally as strict now as PCGS (I know the perception is opposite). Send a few coins to both of these services and make up your own mind. I use both services, depending on wait times or the type of coin that I am having graded. After you send coins to both NGC and PCGS for awhile, you will have your own preferences. Your own collecting preference is what is important. All of us have opinions but you have to live with your choices. Good luck with this, by the way.

[JKK]

I don't know what series you collect or how long you have been collecting, but read the WYNTK posts about ways that people have been fooled by puttied, chemically treated, thumbed, retooled, et cetera. There are many coins that have fooled many of us on this site, myself included. If you are new to the hobby your personal grading skills may need to learn some sophistication before you can always avoid being taken in by doctored coins. Coins do not have to be expensive to be doctored by some people (i.e. some dealers on Ebay).

 

I started in 1971, but only in the last ten years have I concentrated on developing a sharper eye. My best method for avoiding doctored coins is to buy only from dealers I respect, combined with looking them over as carefully as possible. I don't buy anything on eBay.

 

What occasions this line of thought is my purchase of an 1896 proof Barber half. While I have several coins that really deserve to be graded and encapsulated by professionals, that one needs my utmost handling care. Only 762 were minted. I think it's only a PR-62 due to numerous hairlines on Liberty's face, even though they're the kind of hairlines (possibly slide marks) that only coin collectors would normally notice. I'm just not content to leave it in a flip (and a little surprised to buy it that way). I figured if I'm to this point in my collecting, I'd better ask wiser heads about the pros and cons of grading services.

[MarkFeld]

I don't know what series you collect or how long you have been collecting, but read the WYNTK posts about ways that people have been fooled by puttied, chemically treated, thumbed, retooled, et cetera. There are many coins that have fooled many of us on this site, myself included. If you are new to the hobby your personal grading skills may need to learn some sophistication before you can always avoid being taken in by doctored coins. Coins do not have to be expensive to be doctored by some people (i.e. some dealers on Ebay).

 

I started in 1971, but only in the last ten years have I concentrated on developing a sharper eye. My best method for avoiding doctored coins is to buy only from dealers I respect, combined with looking them over as carefully as possible. I don't buy anything on eBay.

 

What occasions this line of thought is my purchase of an 1896 proof Barber half. While I have several coins that really deserve to be graded and encapsulated by professionals, that one needs my utmost handling care. Only 762 were minted. I think it's only a PR-62 due to numerous hairlines on Liberty's face, even though they're the kind of hairlines (possibly slide marks) that only coin collectors would normally notice. I'm just not content to leave it in a flip (and a little surprised to buy it that way). I figured if I'm to this point in my collecting, I'd better ask wiser heads about the pros and cons of grading services.

If your goal is to protect and preserve the Proof Barber Half, you can buy your own holder for considerably less than it would cost to have it graded and encapsulated by a grading company. If you want another (grading)opinion and don't want to have to pay for it, you can show it to a knowledgeable collector or dealer. And if you want to have it graded and encapsulated, I'd suggest either NGC or PCGS.

[World Colonial]

Let me clarify the economic aspects of slabbing. I too am not interested in selling most of my coins. But the fact of the matter is that in my situation, an NGC or PCGS holder substantially increases both the liquidity and the sales prices of my coins. That probably is and will not be as true for you since I understand that most (or all) of your collection is US material while mine is not.

 

But a secondary factor is helping your heirs who inherit your collection if that is in your plans. It is in mine and I am trying to be as organized as I can so that if (or when) they inherit it they will get the most economic value from it should they choose to sell it. (I hope they do not but I've provided a "collector guide" for them that I wrote plus a detailed inventory list with all the specifics of my collection.)

 

You were fortunate to inherit a collection from your father-in-law and he was fortunate to have a collector who wanted it. That's probably not true for most of us. Having (particularly) NGC or PCGS graded coins combined with supplementary collection information in my opinion reduces the probability that someone will rip them off.

[JKK]

If your goal is to protect and preserve the Proof Barber Half, you can buy your own holder for considerably less than it would cost to have it graded and encapsulated by a grading company. If you want another (grading)opinion and don't want to have to pay for it, you can show it to a knowledgeable collector or dealer. And if you want to have it graded and encapsulated, I'd suggest either NGC or PCGS.

 

Very true on the cost factor, but that's not my only concern by any means. It's not the grading expertise I mind paying for. Every form of knowledge has its price. For this coin I'm cheerfully happy to pay, because I'm almost sure it'll actually get graded. In the cases of my other coins I'd like to send in, I'm by no means as confident. While I don't mind paying for grading expertise, I want to get my money's worth for it. By my lights, a flip with an insert saying 'improperly cleaned' isn't my money's worth.

 

A couple weeks back I sat with a friend as he opened up a box of Morgans from NGC. I had no problems with those he had thought MS that got AU-58; I expected rigid standards. But seeing the BB coins with just an explanation, and no grade--that bugged me a lot. Had they been graded but not encapsulated, and the reason given, that I'd accept.

[JKK]

You were fortunate to inherit a collection from your father-in-law and he was fortunate to have a collector who wanted it. That's probably not true for most of us. Having (particularly) NGC or PCGS graded coins combined with supplementary collection information in my opinion reduces the probability that someone will rip them off.

 

I was indeed fortunate. It was a major addition to my own. And on top of that, it was only 1/4 of his collection, which was divided among his children. The other three barely care, and in one case I have to hope that an errant young person doesn't get access to them. My wife and I have discussed making offers to the other siblings for their portions, or at least the bulk of them. He and I definitely had a bond over our interest in coins. But he never got any of his slabbed, and I think some of them should be.

 

Then there's the insurance factor. It's probably easier to make an insurance case for the more expensive pieces if I have them graded and slabbed. But beforehand, I need to educate myself, just as I had to educate myself about proofs in order to grade all the modern and near-modern proofs he left us. It's like with investing in securities, which I know rather more about. Before one buys stock or bonds or ETFs or ADRs or CEFs or preferreds, etc. (you get the picture), one is very rash not to gain a full understanding of the securities and how they work. I continue to find this forum most educational for numismatics--a major help.

[ant]

for insuarance it is not cost worthy to cover non key coins. a SDB has its own insurance and coverage. my whole collection is insured but that is cause my people gave me a better deal to cover all the coins and jewelry @ 1 time. the cost of the plan is very expensive and sometimes i think i should just cover my biz stuff and not worry about coins.

[James_OldeTowne]

I'm not sure the reasons you've explained would convince me to invest a considerable sum of money in certification. It sounds like sentimental factors come into play here (inheritance, family, etc.), and you should realize that certification depersonalizes coins. You will no longer be able to hold them directly, you will always be viewing the coins under circumstances dictated by someone else that you don't even know personally, and the coins will occupy much more physical space, making them more difficult to enjoy at your leisure.

 

Protection is not a convincing reason, either. Coins have remained stored in saflips and handled regularly without accruing any damage or problems whatsoever. For that matter, those most delicate of coins - uncirculated early copper - have been stored in cheap paper envelopes for decades and retained their original beauty. I have never understood this line of reasoning: "slabs protect coins", when saflips are a time-proven storage mechanism.

 

Finally, if you really want a proficient evaluation of your coins' grades, there are far more economical ways than certification. At the very least, have a professional "pre screen" your coins, so as to save yourself a lot of money and heartache from the inevitable bodybags.

 

Best of luck (thumbs u in whatever you decide to do!

[BULLY]

I think I'd like to clarify this quote.

 

I am assuming when you say that a Safe Deposit Box has its own insurance, based on your later contextual clues, what you mean is that the items in your safe deposit box have insurance because you have purchased a separate insurance policy, at significant cost, in order to cover the items in the box. Otherwise, items in Safe Deposit Boxes ARE NOT covered by any form of insurance offered by banks as a rule, and coin collections are generally not covered by homeowners insurances policies, at least not usually much beyond $200 or $250 (MAYBE $500).

 

Separate policies are required, even if the items are in a safe deposit box, and whether or not the item is certified.

 

Insurance companies, however, do seem to like certified coins - they are something that they recognized and to which they can relate, and which are easily recognizable in the event of a loss. Uncertified coins are, of course, much more subjective.

 

SIDE NOTE: For coin collection insurance, for all those out there who don't have it but who want/need it, if you are a member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), you are eligible for a group rate for a policy underwritten by AXA (a reliable company) and administered by an agency in NY, the Hugh Wood Agency. You may contact the ANA or find more information about the coverage at: www.money.org

 

for insuarance it is not cost worthy to cover non key coins. a SDB has its own insurance and coverage. my whole collection is insured but that is cause my people gave me a better deal to cover all the coins and jewelry @ 1 time. the cost of the plan is very expensive and sometimes i think i should just cover my biz stuff and not worry about coins.