1807,8 and 9 Busties, and the transition from Sub design #1 to Sub design #2

[MikeKing]

I decided to relax a little today, have a good cigar, and go back to Ed Souders' Bust Half Fever. There's always something new that the mind sees in this book no matter how many times you read it. I started reading up on the 1809's because I just posted a IIII edge 1809. Souders contests the notion that the IIII edge, or the XXXX edge 1809's were not experimental edges, as described all over the place. Rather, his contention is that the idea of an experimental edge went out with the 1793 Liberty Cap Large Cent, basically, having been perfected at that time. He suggests instead that the edge markings (XXXX or IIIII or the combo of the two) is more likely due to repair of the edge dies..

 

Now, maybe I should digress backwards for a minute. The edges were made on the planchets before the coin was minted. Additionally, the 1809 was the year that a change in Reich's original design occured.

 

It takes a certain amount of contemplation (I think) of geometric forms or whatever to finally come to an understanding of what the WD or the Working Die is. That's something all numismatists should know. In fact, I'll throw in my two cents here and say that even if you don't collect Bust Halves, you should buy a copy of Souders' Bust Half Fever. Knowing one coin only enriches your knowledge of other coins, and this book is written plainly and with significant insight into the minting processes and the scarcity of Bust Halves.

 

For example, Reich's design / The Capped Bust Half has a total span of 30 years, or, actually 29, since there was no 1816, 1807-1836. The 1807 (including all varieties) has the second lowest mintage of the whole bunch, the 1809 (including all varieties) ranks as the 11th, and the 1808 (including all varieties) ranks 10th {on the scale of 1-29, 1 being the rarest}.

 

The WD or the Working Die was first modified in 1809, thus, the 1807 and the 1808 were minted using WD #1, and the 1809 using WD #2.

 

Can you detect the changes that Reich made to his (beautiful) design???

 

 

 

[MBA101]

[Just Bob]

I'm glad you posted this, Mike. I had been noticing subtle differences, when comparing different dates, but wasn't aware of the story behind them. Guess I have another book to add to my library.

[jesbroken]

Mike,

Thank you for allowing us to share your beautiful CBH specimens and for the information. I guess I'll have to read Bust Half Fever again.

Yes, I can visualize some of his changes, most certainly not all. Liberty's lower chin seems more curved, breasts are more bountiful, the clasp on the gown is moved forward along with her curl. The stars are thinner and more pronounced.

On the reverse, the eagle is more relaxed and upright(not in the attack mode as in the sub design #1) and its left talons grip the arrows more individually rather than all together(so as to indicate a more relaxed eagle than the #1 design indicated.

I feel overall his intent was to be a less threatening display on the coin than the first design. JMO.

Again, thanks and congrats on your great possessions.

Jim

[bsshog40]

Very beautiful CBH's there Mike!

[harvey8542]

Wow great CBH'S Mike

[TomB]

I won't comment on the changes since I am rather familiar with this series, however, I will comment that the coins you posted are quite nice and that 1807 is outstanding! Additionally, I could not agree more about Bust Half Fever in that Edgar really went out of his way to explain the entire working die process and other details of this series that can go quite a ways to understanding other coinage, too. The first edition is long sold out and can be found for $105 or so, but the second edition, which is expanded, might still be had on ebay for $80 or so. BUY IT! (thumbs u

[physics-fan3.14]

I just bought Overton's 4th edition, it should get here soon. After I read that (which sounds like it's going to take a while), I plan on getting Bust Half Fever.

[Mozin]

Don Parsley's UNITED STATES EARLY HALF DOLLAR DIE VARIETIES fourth edition certainly is the first book to buy on CBHs. It does not require a lot of reading, mostly used to attribute marriages.

 

Edgar Souder's BUST HALF FEVER is a book that deserves to be read carefully, then reread many more times. Everyone with any interest in Bust Halves should buy BUST HALF FEVER, both editions are valuable.

 

MikeKing,

 

I can't see enough pretty 1807s. Show me more.

[123cents]

Those are some gorgeous early CBH's Mike.

[rrantique]

Those are some gorgeous early CBH's Mike.

 

I agree, there is just something special about a beautiful Bust.

 

 

[MikeKing]

Mike,

Thank you for allowing us to share your beautiful CBH specimens and for the information. I guess I'll have to read Bust Half Fever again.

Yes, I can visualize some of his changes, most certainly not all. Liberty's lower chin seems more curved, breasts are more bountiful, the clasp on the gown is moved forward along with her curl. The stars are thinner and more pronounced.

On the reverse, the eagle is more relaxed and upright(not in the attack mode as in the sub design #1) and its left talons grip the arrows more individually rather than all together(so as to indicate a more relaxed eagle than the #1 design indicated.

I feel overall his intent was to be a less threatening display on the coin than the first design. JMO.

Again, thanks and congrats on your great possessions.

Jim

 

Hi Jim. You pointed out several of the changes indeed. The stars however, are kind of out of the picture, in that, they are punched individually into the working die, and can vary even within a given HUB

 

e.g.,

 

HUB #1

 

there are large stars

and small stars

 

[MikeKing]

additionally, the feathers on the wings of the 1807 and 1808 (HUB 1) are pointed, whereas the feathers on the wings of the 1809 (HUB 2) are rounded.

[Just Bob]

BTW, Mike, what kind of cigar was it?

[MikeKing]

ah...a la aurora preferido with a cameroon wrapper