What does this mean on an ingot?

[Revenant]

Just for fun I've been looking at silver ingots including art bars that are ~1 ounce. I keep running into the following wording that has me a little suspicious of the true contents of the bar:

 

The bar weighs 26grms and struck in 100mil .999 silver-clad and measures 1.96" x 1.14".

 

What is this sentence really telling me?

What is 100mil .999 silver-clad?

 

[WoodenJefferson]

100mil .999 silver-clad

 

100mil is the thickness of the .999 fine silver plate. The core material (bulf of the weight) is not silver.

 

mil [1]

a unit of distance equal to 0.001 inch: a "milli-inch," in other words. Mils are used, primarily in the U.S., to express small distances and tolerances in engineering work. One mil is exactly 25.4 microns, just as one inch is exactly 25.4 millimeters. This unit is also called the thou. With the increasing use of metric units in the U.S., many machinists now avoid the use of "mil" because that term is also a handy slang for the millimeter.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

100 mil silver clad means it is a silver plated piece of base metal, do not buy it for silver. Buy it only if you like the design.

[MunkyMan95]

Additionally, just FYI, a troy ounce weighs approximately 31.1g, so I don't know why someone would make a bar weighing only 26 grams.

[Revenant]

Additionally, just FYI, a troy ounce weighs approximately 31.1g, so I don't know why someone would make a bar weighing only 26 grams.

 

I was aware. These are apparently replicas of LE 1 oz silver bars. Changing the core to base metal while retaining size must have lowered the weight.

[TomB]

100mil .999 silver-clad=junk.

[PerryHall]

Fake ingot. Base metal with silver plating. Don't waste your money because it's not even worth the shipping costs.

[Conder101]

Also be warned that although as WoodenJefferson said a Mil is a thousandth of an inch, these companies that have been making the silver and gold plated replica coins have been using the term Mil to stand for a MILLIONTH of an inch! A true 100 Mil plating would actually be a tenth of an inch thick or 2.5 mm! A very substantial layer! (A copy silver dollar with a true 100 mill silver plating would be over 5 mm thick just from the plating! The maximum size that an NGC slab can hold is 4 mm thick.) A 100 Mil thick plating with these new companies definitions is just a ten thousandth of an inch thick, or half the thickness of the plating of the copper on a zinc cent.

 

I was aware. These are apparently replicas of LE 1 oz silver bars. Changing the core to base metal while retaining size must have lowered the weight.

Correct. A base metal copy (using copper, nickel or a coppernickel alloy) of a pure silver object will only weigh 85.7% as much. So a copy of a 1 oz silver bar would only weigh 26.66 grams.

[Revenant]

Correct. A base metal copy (using copper, nickel or a coppernickel alloy) of a pure silver object will only weigh 85.7% as much. So a copy of a 1 oz silver bar would only weigh 26.66 grams.

 

Well, here's one that had me confused, I got this in the mail and I was pretty darn sure that it wasn't actually pure silver but it is the same size and weight as a 1 troy ounce bar. Any thoughts?

 

Last I checked, 15 Grains was roughly 0.03 Troy ounces, but like I said it has the size and weight.

[bsshog40]

So 0.03, would that just be enough to be plated?

[Revenant]

So 0.03, would that just be enough to be plated?

 

Yes, but it goes deeper than that. Same size and weight = same overall density. All the more common metals like aluminum, zinc, nickel, copper, etc are less dense so you'd expect the bar to be bigger or lighter. It isn't. There's only 1 metal I can think of that's common and would be heavier than silver, lead. I'm not sure I even want to go there.

[WoodenJefferson]

15 grains = .97 grams

.97 grams = .03 oz.

 

You are lacking .97 oz to make just one full ounce of .999 fine silver.

 

A Seated Liberty Half Dime wieghs 1.3 grams or .0458 oz. of 90% silver, so it's pretty close to that amount of silver.

 

You decide if it's plated or not.

 

 

[Revenant]

You are lacking .97 oz to make just one full ounce of .999 fine silver.

 

You decide if it's plated or not.

 

 

Since it appears to be too heavy, any guess as to what's in the middle?

[WoodenJefferson]

Any base metal such as copper, bronze, nickel-alloy that is conducive for uniform thickness of the .999 fine silver plating material could be used. It must be a malleable metal to form the cast or stamping of the original form, low melting temperatures, be conductive to electricity when used in the acid bath and to some extent, be non-corrosive under electrolysis and for post production purposes.

 

Right now, a brass alloy would be my best guess, it meets all the criteria and is of some substance weight wise, but, if a nickel alloy were used, scratching it or denting it would not reveal a hidden core…so who’s to know except the mgf.

 

[Conder101]

Well, here's one that had me confused, I got this in the mail and I was pretty darn sure that it wasn't actually pure silver but it is the same size and weight as a 1 troy ounce bar. Any thoughts?

 

Last I checked, 15 Grains was roughly 0.03 Troy ounces, but like I said it has the size and weight.

Sure, it has the same length and width and weight as a 1 oz silver bar but I bet the thickness is slightly greater. I don't have a silver bar to actually measure but if I use the ratio of length to width of the bar you show, and assume a silver bar is one inch wide, it would be 1.65 inches long and 2.8 mm thick. A silver plated copper bar that had the same weight, width and length would be 3 mm thick a difference of just .2 mm or .008 inches. A difficult difference to see by eye or to even measure. Especially with a heavy vinyl wrapper around it so you can't get a direct measurement.

[Revenant]

Sure, it has the same length and width and weight as a 1 oz silver bar but I bet the thickness is slightly greater. I don't have a silver bar to actually measure but if I use the ratio of length to width of the bar you show, and assume a silver bar is one inch wide, it would be 1.65 inches long and 2.8 mm thick. A silver plated copper bar that had the same weight, width and length would be 3 mm thick a difference of just .2 mm or .008 inches. A difficult difference to see by eye or to even measure. Especially with a heavy vinyl wrapper around it so you can't get a direct measurement.

 

Interesting observation. Well, I didn't pay for it like it was silver so I'm not worried. I just thought the pattern on the other side was interesting. You made a reasonable guess as to the size. They're actually about 1.125 by 2 inches. Thes are slightly more fun though, you'll have to forgive my dirty scanner bed:

[WoodenJefferson]

1 troy ounce = 1.09714286 ounces

 

Now, this last one you show, that is a real bullion bar (1+ oz) of die stamped solid silver. Much more valuable bullion wise than the one marked 15 grains.

[Revenant]

1 troy ounce = 1.09714286 ounces

 

Now, this last one you show, that is a real bullion bar (1+ oz) of die stamped solid silver. Much more valuable bullion wise than the one marked 15 grains.

 

Thank you Wood, I'd guessed as much. Those are actually the more interesting sides of 2 different bars.