Wanna be a coin dealer??

[bsshog40]

For only $126.95, you can become a Master Coin dealer! link

[WoodenJefferson]

I'm just a curiosity seeker. My interest in coins is not serious. Should I order the MCDIP? No, it's not for you.

 

 

case closed

[physics-fan3.14]

But look at all the stuff you get!

 

 

Someone had fun with the clipart. You can probably learn everything in that package from one good conversation with Mark Feld.

[pendragon1998]

Well heck, I wasn't going to do it, but it's the DELUXE PLATINUM EDITION!!! I'm going to mortgage my tractor and get on board!

[bsshog40]

After getting all this stuff, you should be able to go to your local coin dealer and I'll bet they'll hire you on the spot. Being a Master and all!!

 

I think I'll stick to these forums and remain a lowly apprentice! I can bet I've gotten more knowledge here than I could in any of that stuff! (thumbs u

[rrantique]

I'm with you Bobby, guess we will have to remain a couple of lowly grasshoppers.

[WoodenJefferson]

Gee whizzz...the set I got had a different volume at the end.

 

[TwoKopeiki]

Gee whizzz...the set I got had a different volume at the end.

 

[MikeKing]

I'm with you Bobby, guess we will have to remain a couple of lowly grasshoppers.

 

how'd you get your hands on a picture of my two brothers?

[Houston Investor]

People always think dealing coins is some glamourus thing. But setting up at some big out of town show realizing you have $1000 of fixed expense in it before you have sold a single coin is no fun thing. Especially when the people walking in the door either don't have any money (and of course nothing to sell) or if they do they are all cheap a's who just want to buy at sheet or some big specialty collector looking for that esoteric item no one in the room probably has. Sometimes its more fun (and profitable) just to sell junk.

 

I liked one guys idea - he would dump a mountain of bulk junk on his bourse table and they would be all over there going thru it like it was some kinda treasure find.

When he was setting up, he would wheel in a shiny new steel garbage can full of the stuff - I guess he just kept it in his garage. At closing time he would take the coins off the table and put them back in the can and then put the lid back on. He had a sign he would leave on it "night crew - this is not trash, do not empty." He said his fav shows were when he would go home after the show with the garbage can nearly empty. I asked him how he kept track of P&L - he said "I just buy da stuff and put in 2x2.s some maybe one grade higher (especially it came out of dose plactic jobbies dat dose pros do) and then price it double bubble (cost x 2). Dat way tings easy to remember."

 

[physics-fan3.14]

 

I liked one guys idea - he would dump a mountain of bulk junk on his bourse table and they would be all over there going thru it like it was some kinda treasure find.

 

 

Sad, but true. If you put a big sign up that says "Everything 20% off" I guarantee that it will sell like hotcakes, even if you mark up the price to make up for the 20% discount.

[rrantique]

I'm with you Bobby, guess we will have to remain a couple of lowly grasshoppers.

 

how'd you get your hands on a picture of my two brothers?

 

Howdy brother Mikey.

[Houston Investor]

No - I have basically arrived at the conclusion the coin business may have seen its day (the big boys need the football sticker to sell their stuff ) - I am finding I would rather be a strip club owner - the owner gets all the action - free food, drinks, and of course the girls - they're young, beautiful, half naked, and uninhibited - I wouldn't want it any other way. Not to mention its primarily a cash business and the dancers have to pay you a tipout to dance there (they are independent contractors who make their money either inside or outside the club). Even a partnership vs full ownership in one of these clubs can be very lucrative and fun.

 

 

 

[nwcs]

Where's the manual for ATing coins?

[bsshog40]

Where's the manual for ATing coins?

 

It's got to be in that 10lb package somewhere!

[rrantique]

Where's the manual for ATing coins?

 

It's got to be in that 10lb package somewhere!

 

 

 

 

[Houston Investor]

Yes a lot of dealers like to AT coins and then sell them raw to unsuspecting buyers. However, the more expensive the coin, the more likely someone is going to question why it has not been slabbed . However, thats assuming a TPG or assurer could detect AT coins 100% of the time. From what I have seen on the bourse or had offered to me at my table at shows I am not convinced they can. Generally, I prefer to stay away from toned coins and this is mainly my preference for Gem BU's with super luster and blast.

 

What is a worse abuse than AT coins is some big phony of a scam artist offering a relatively inexpensive coin at say 10x the price guide price merely because it is nicely toned.

[lehigh96]

Yes a lot of dealers like to AT coins and then sell them raw to unsuspecting buyers. However, the more expensive the coin, the more likely someone is going to question why it has not been slabbed . However, thats assuming a TPG or assurer could detect AT coins 100% of the time. From what I have seen on the bourse or had offered to me at my table at shows I am not convinced they can. Generally, I prefer to stay away from toned coins and this is mainly my preference for Gem BU's with super luster and blast.

 

What is a worse abuse than AT coins is some big phony of a scam artist offering a relatively inexpensive coin at say 10x the price guide price merely because it is nicely toned.

 

It amazes me that you can in one sentence basically admit that your knowledge of the toned coin market is limited because you prefer blast white coins, and then proceed in the next sentence to say that dealers who sell toned coins for a premium are scam artists. This comment is inflammatory to both buyers and sellers of rainbow toned coins. If you prefer not to deal in toned coins, then you should not make comments of this nature until you understand why these coins sell at a premium of 10X-20X-30X the price guide price.

 

I will do my best to give you a clue even though I think that this will be an effort in futility. The coin pictured below is a common 1886 Morgan Dollar NGC MS64. It is a $50 coin with a large popluation of 68733/35225.

 

 

The multiple of the price guide price for toned coins is affected by the price. This means that a $50 coin will sell at 10X far more often than a $500 coin. Having said that, most attractively toned coins with a $50 price guide will sell anywhere from 2-5X the price guide price. In order to reach the 10X + level, you would need a monster toned coin. These coins are extremely rare. For arguments sake, let's say that only 1/100 1886 MS64 Morgans are monster toned to qualify for the 10X price guide price. This means that the population has now dropped from 68733/35225 down to 687/352. Collectors who desire these coins (and there are a lot of them) do not have 70,000 coins to chose from, they only have 700. This is basic supply and demand. The price guide of $50 is based upon a generic white coin with a population of 70,000. The $500 toned coin is based upon a population of 700 monster toned coins. Please examine the coin pictured below. There are not 70,000 of these available on the market and you can't expect to pay $50 for the coin. You also can't call someone who sells this coin for $500 a scam artist. The price guides don't dictate value, the market (ie what people are willing to pay) does.

 

 

Furthermore, if you still think that both of the coins pictured in this post are worth the same amount of money, then this is an effort in futility and you will forever be a slave to the price guides without ever really understanding the market. And since you like to rely on price guides, would you like to know what an 1886 MS67 Morgan with a population of between 700-800 is? It is about $1,000.

 

I will agree that there are dealers that try to pass off moderately attractive toned coins for 10X the price guide price. However, in most cases, those coins waste away in their inventory because most of the true collectors of toned coins understand the values of the coins and would not pay 10X the price guide price unless the coin was spectacular. If some uneducated uniformed person buys a coin like that, then they are responsible for their own actions (caveat emptor). However, seeing grossly overpriced toned coins is the exception not the rule, except on E-Bay. I hope this helps you understand that there are no "big phony of a scam artists" ripping people off by selling toned coins.

 

[Houston Investor]

Lehigh, I think I have to wonder if your elevator goes to the top.

 

It can be argued the toned coin you have pictured is lower in the grade range than the brilliant coin due to more severe contact marks in the facial area and you would pay 10x more for it? Go ahead and get ripped then. But when it comes time to sell I doubt there will be a dealer in the bourse room who will give you CDN Bid x 10 for it. You may not even get full bid.

 

Toned vs brilliant coins is merely a preference. Yes there are people who get ripped paying huge premiums for toned coins - so what if your one of them?

 

Sorry, I would rather have 10 of the brilliant coin (its quite nice) than pay that same amount for one toned coin.

 

[lehigh96]

Parker,

 

All your response did was to confirm that my attempt to help you understand the toned coin market was indeed an effort in futility. I actually agree that the coin pictured is either a low MS64 or a high MS63 but that has nothing to do with the value of the coin. The CDN bid price has nothing to do with the value of the coin.

 

Just because some collectors prefer brilliant coins does not mean that you can simply deny that there is a market for toned coins that carry a different valuation than the CDN bid price. Based on your post, you don't think that any dealer would ever offer me 10 bid. I really want to be clear about your professional numismatic opinion regarding this coin. Since you think my elevator doesn't go all the way to the top, I will assume that you think I don't know anything about coins. So lets roll with that. Assume that I don't know the first thing about coins and please answer the following questions.

 

How much is this coin worth according to the price guides?

How much would you offer me for this coin?

Assuming I accept your offer, how would you sell the coin (auction or direct buy)?

If auction, what would the reserve price be?

If direct buy, what would your list price be?

 

Please answer these questions as it appears I really need some guidance in this matter. Thank You!

[MarkFeld]

Parker,

 

All your response did was to confirm that my attempt to help you understand the toned coin market was indeed an effort in futility. I actually agree that the coin pictured is either a low MS64 or a high MS63 but that has nothing to do with the value of the coin. The CDN bid price has nothing to do with the value of the coin.

 

Just because some collectors prefer brilliant coins does not mean that you can simply deny that there is a market for toned coins that carry a different valuation than the CDN bid price. Based on your post, you don't think that any dealer would ever offer me 10 bid. I really want to be clear about your professional numismatic opinion regarding this coin. Since you think my elevator doesn't go all the way to the top, I will assume that you think I don't know anything about coins. So lets roll with that. Assume that I don't know the first thing about coins and please answer the following questions.

 

How much is this coin worth according to the price guides?

How much would you offer me for this coin?

Assuming I accept your offer, how would you sell the coin (auction or direct buy)?

If auction, what would the reserve price be?

If direct buy, what would your list price be?

 

Please answer these questions as it appears I really need some guidance in this matter. Thank You!

Based upon your exchange with Parker, it doesn't sound to me as if you need any "guidance", other than to stop beating your head against the wall, trying to get through to him

 

He is already on record as being basically a "sheet" buyer and not paying much of a premium for coins, regardless of how special they might be. Perhaps he can't tell the difference, or maybe it simply doesn't matter to him, either way. He won't pay 10X bid, 5X bid or 2X bid for anything, and I doubt he'll even pay 50% over bid either, based on previous comments he has made here. And that's fine, as everyone, whether dealers or collectors, should buy the type of material that they want to/are comfortable with.

 

What's not OK, in my book, however, is the way he addressed you, merely because you choose to participate in a different market from the one he does.

[Houston Investor]

I think Lehigh can speak for himself Feld.

 

BTW - Been sending out any $2K approvals to folks you don't know lately? I see ebay shut down your terrorist activities against sellers.............

 

If you somehow manage to get another account on ebay, please let us know your ID so some of us may block it. I am sure there are others who will want to buy from you......

 

I think you have an impressive inventory and without our differences I may have even bought some items from you. I would have never asked for anything on approval. I know I would not even give out a $2 coin on approval myself as someone once wanted me to do this at a show (the guy wanted to take it somewhere else in the bourse room to look at it thru a microscope). I told the guy "nothing leaves my table unless purchased."

 

Lehigh - as far as your questions - take your coin to a show. shop it around to various dealers and let the forum know what some of them would offer you. I remain skeptical the offer will be some huge premium multiples above bid. The NGC bid per CCDN (latest issue I have) is $51 for 1886 $ in MS64. I would estimate many of them would simply offer $100 for the two planning to sell them to show customers at $65 (CDN ask of $59 plus about 10%). Some would list the toned piece in an ebay auction hoping to capitalize on people who would pay more for toned coins. No, I do not think I would be high buyer on your toned piece as I prefer coins that are Brilliant, Gem BU, with super luster. In addition, since the desirability of toned coins is highly subjective and debatable, there is no real price guide support differentiating this mateial (and assigning a premium) in either the CDN or Coin World Value Trends. I would have zero interest in your two coins above $100.

 

I would urge investors to concentrate on brilliant pieces like the first one pictured vs some esoteric issue that does not have easily verifiable pricing. When I am offered common generics as the two above, I simply pull out my bluesheet. I am a businessman, if you don't like my offer, then go sell it somewhere else.

 

I will come down hard on anyone who attacks me in the way various members in here have.

 

 

 

 

 

[bsshog40]

Wow, this is getting exciting. Been a long time since we've had two grown adults having a childish argument about a difference of opinions & preferences.

[lehigh96]

I think Lehigh can speak for himself Feld.

 

BTW - Been sending out any $2K approvals to folks you don't know lately? I see ebay shut down your terrorist activities against sellers.............

 

If you somehow manage to get another account on ebay, please let us know your ID so some of us may block it. I am sure there are others who will want to buy from you......

 

I think you have an impressive inventory and without our differences I may have even bought some items from you. I would have never asked for anything on approval. I know I would not even give out a $2 coin on approval myself as someone once wanted me to do this at a show (the guy wanted to take it somewhere else in the bourse room to look at it thru a microscope). I told the guy "nothing leaves my table unless purchased."

 

Lehigh - as far as your questions - take your coin to a show. shop it around to various dealers and let the forum know what some of them would offer you. I remain skeptical the offer will be some huge premium multiples above bid. The NGC bid per CCDN (latest issue I have) is $51 for 1886 $ in MS64. I would estimate many of them would simply offer $100 for the two planning to sell them to show customers at $65 (CDN ask of $59 plus about 10%). Some would list the toned piece in an ebay auction hoping to capitalize on people who would pay more for toned coins. No, I do not think I would be high buyer on your toned piece as I prefer coins that are Brilliant, Gem BU, with super luster. In addition, since the desirability of toned coins is highly subjective and debatable, there is no real price guide support differentiating this mateial (and assigning a premium) in either the CDN or Coin World Value Trends. I would have zero interest in your two coins above $100.

 

I would urge investors to concentrate on brilliant pieces like the first one pictured vs some esoteric issue that does not have easily verifiable pricing. When I am offered common generics as the two above, I simply pull out my bluesheet. I am a businessman, if you don't like my offer, then go sell it somewhere else.

 

I will come down hard on anyone who attacks me in the way various members in here have.

 

 

 

 

 

Parker,

 

I have not attacked you at all in any of my posts and will not do that regardless of your comments. You must realize however that you have made several insulting statements in this thread. I am a collector not a dealer of rainbow toned coins. However, I have in the past sold a coin for 10X bid, and have bought many, many coins at 10X bid. I don't appreciate you calling me and everyone else who engages in the toned coin market a scam artist. My response was an attempt to educate you about why toned coins carry such a premium. It was logically presented and only included little jabs not direct insults. You responded by further insulting me saying that my elevator does not reach the top floor and to inform me that I am most likely one of the collectors that is getting fleeced by the supposed scam artists.

 

Mark then graciously tried to mediate the situation by telling me that I will not change your mind no matter how hard I try and that I should accept that your stubborness on the issue will prevail. You then responded by personally attacking him by bringing up the very unforntunate situation related to the criminal who in effect stole his coins. Furthermore, you called his E-Bay practices "terrorist activities" and insinuated that you were glad E-Bay shut him down.

 

I don't know what has happened to you in the past on these boards as I am relatively new to the board. However, I believe based on your conduct and statements in this thread that any conflicts you may have had are solely your responsibility. Your comments in this thread have been insulting, mean spirited, vengeful and IMO completely unacceptable. At this point, I believe that you owe everyone involved an apology. Do you even know how many of the board members engage in the buying and selling of rainbow toned coins. There are hundreds of us. It is my hope that you can see past your pride and realize that your comments have been out of line and offer the appropriate apology so that this forum can continue as a place for people to freely express their opinions in a positive atmosphere.

 

Regarding your comment about showing my coins to dealers on the bourse floor at a coin show. That is impossible. I work two jobs and do not have time to attend coin shows. Additionally, I would never try to sell my coins using that avenue. The best way to sell toned coins is at a major auction with a reserve or through a dealer who specializes in rainbow toned coins. This is how I have sold my coins in the past and how I will sell my coins in the future. I sometimes lose up to 10% when I sell my coins, but considering that this is a hobby not a business for me, the loss is completely acceptable.

 

I will start a new thread on this board asking everyone to give me their opinion as to the market value of the Battle Creek coin so that you can see what others think. I respect the fact that you deal in brilliant untoned coins with established price guides and low risk. The people who deal with rainbow toned coins do not have established price guides and sometimes engage in very risky business transactions. I only ask that you respect the majority of people in the toned coin market for the good honest people they are rather than making a stereotypical statement that should be reserved for the few bad apples out there who actually try to swindle people.

 

Respectfully, Paul