More Info on the 2009 Ultra-High Relief St. Gaudens Double Eagle

[astrostu]

Fresh off the Mint's Press Release.

 

I don't think there's too much new information in it other than these coins will be produced en masse in 2009 along with all the other gold stuff the Mint's putting out (so no, this will NOT take the place of the Buffalo, which I think had been a question posed but unanswered).

 

Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson has authorized the United States Mint to issue a one-ounce ultra-high relief 24-karat gold coin, creating a 2009 version of what many have called the most beautiful gold piece ever made: the 1907 Augustus Saint-Gaudens $20 Double Eagle. The mintage of the new coin will be unlimited for one year. Among the production specifications approved by Secretary Paulson are the new coin's business-strike finish and a diameter of 27 millimeters.

 

Only 2009-dated coins will be minted. The coins will go on sale in early 2009, although sales may continue into 2010 if inventory exists.

 

United States Mint Director Ed Moy announced at a meeting of the Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee (CCAC) on March 13, 2008, that the agency planned to recreate the Saint-Gaudens 1907 ultra-high relief $20 gold piece commonly referred to as the "Double Eagle." The initial proposal by the United States Mint to develop this 24-karat gold coin had also been authorized by Secretary Paulson.

 

Through advancements in technology, the United States Mint can today produce the ultra-high relief coin envisioned by Augustus Saint-Gaudens in the early 20th century. A 27-millimeter diameter gold blank, more than 50% thicker than other United States Mint one-ounce 24-karat gold coins, will be used, because of its historical significance and the opportunity it provides to achieve the greater depth and relief to which Saint-Gaudens had aspired.

 

In most respects, the new legal tender gold coin will authentically reproduce the ultra-high relief gold piece. The obverse design (heads side) will be based on the obverse of the original Saint-Gaudens design executed in 1907. The reverse (tails side) also will be based on those pieces and will include 14 sun rays. The edge of the coin will feature the same raised edge-lettering as the 1907 pieces. The edge-lettering features the inscription "E Pluribus Unum" with stars serving as delimiters between the letters.

 

As approved by Secretary Paulson, the new coin will have several modern elements. The obverse of the new coin will feature 50 stars, instead of the original 46 stars on the obverse (heads side), which represented the 46 states in the Union in 1907. The CCAC recommended that the obverse design be modified in this manner to honor all 50 states in the Union today. Also, responding to the recommendation of the Commission of Fine Arts, the United States Mint will inscribe the Roman numerals "MMIX" (2009) in a style similar to the original Saint-Gaudens design. Additionally, the inscription "In God We Trust" will appear on the reverse design of the new coin because current law requires placement of this inscription on all U.S. coinage.

 

The new coin is authorized under 31 U.S.C. § 5112(i)(4)©, which allows the Secretary of the Treasury to prescribe program procedures and specifications for minting and issuing new gold coins. This provision also gives the Secretary the discretion to select each such coin's designs, varieties, quantities, denomination, and inscriptions.

 

The United States Mint will continue to mint and issue the 24-karat American Buffalo Gold Bullion and Proof Coins, the 24-karat First Spouse Gold Proof and Uncirculated Coins, and the 22-karat (91.67% fineness) American Eagle Gold Bullion, Proof and Uncirculated Coins.

[MunkyMan95]

Man, I really, really want one of these. I hope the Mint can do it up right, and not disappoint.

[TomB]

I also look forward to seeing the final product.

[BillJones]

It sounds like it will be a fun coin, but I have two reservations.

 

#1. Why 2009 and not 2007? I guess we will be celebrating the 102 anniversary of the Ultra High Relief $20 gold.

 

#2. I hope that the mint is not going to pay games with the mintage and the ordering procedures so that we have more of this *spoon* with a few dealers buying them all and then charging collectors premiums for them. I’ve had enough of the garbage with Internet blockage as it was with the First Spouse series.

 

[DC Dawg]

It sounds like it will be a fun coin, but I have two reservations.

 

#1. Why 2009 and not 2007? I guess we will be celebrating the 102 anniversary of the Ultra High Relief $20 gold.

By law, the Mint is not allowed to mint coins with a different year than the current. This doesn't mean they had not done it in the past (see 1964-66 as the last example), but it does not appear they want to break that law.

 

Before anyone says anything, the law to create the bicentennial coinage specified that the coins be minted with the dual date 1776-1976 in the years 1975 and 1976.

 

#2. I hope that the mint is not going to pay games with the mintage and the ordering procedures so that we have more of this *spoon* with a few dealers buying them all and then charging collectors premiums for them. I’ve had enough of the garbage with Internet blockage as it was with the First Spouse series.

The mintage of the First Spouse series is governed by law that includes mintage limits. The Mint is using a "loophole" in the law that authorizes the minting of gold American Eagle coins to add this coin to their portfolio. The Mint will continue to sell American Eagle 22-karat and Buffalo 24-karat gold coins. If they hold to the law, the Mint will strike coins to the demand.

 

Other than the original Saint Gaudens patterns, I don't think the US Mint has struck piefort coins for public issue. This will be the first!

 

Scott

[BillJones]

I understand the fact that the mint as to put the current year on the coin. It just makes me wonder why they didn't do it in 2007. The mint made Buffalo coins in 2007, why didn't someone think of the doing a High Relief St. Gaudens?

 

The 102nd anniversary kind of reminds me of the 38 anniversary of the Korean War.

 

[jtryka]

I understand the fact that the mint as to put the current year on the coin. It just makes me wonder why they didn't do it in 2007. The mint made Buffalo coins in 2007, why didn't someone think of the doing a High Relief St. Gaudens?

 

The 102nd anniversary kind of reminds me of the 38 anniversary of the Korean War.

 

I thought of this in 2005, but nobody in Washington listens to me or reads these boards apparently! I think this will be a neat coin if the mint does it right, and I hope there are no proofs, only business strikes.

[RWB]

A high relief MMVII was suggested to members of Congress at least as early as 2003-2004. Letters and photos went specifically to the Vermont and New Hampshire delegations...no one was interested.

 

It'll be fun to see what the slab companies do with these - final thickness will be approx. 1/2 inch.

[astrostu]

I think this will be a neat coin if the mint does it right ...

 

Amen! I think the collector community as a whole will be really pi$$ed if the Mint messes this one up. After all, it is probably the most-best-liked design in US coinage.

[PerryHall]

Agree that they should have done this in 2007 but it's better late than never.

[Conder101]

Other than the original Saint Gaudens patterns, I don't think the US Mint has struck piefort coins for public issue. This will be the first!

It isn't a true piedfort. A piedfort is the standard diameter of the coin and twice the thickness. If this was a true piedfort of the small diameter pattern it would have to be thick enough to weight 2 oz.

 

final thickness will be approx. 1/2 inch

I've only run rough figures but I come up closer to a third of an inch.

[PerryHall]

I've only run rough figures but I come up closer to a third of an inch.

 

Is this the thickness of the planchet or finished coin? Will these coins fit into the standard slabs?

[Conder101]

I would say no. The figure I came up with for the thickness was about 9 mm and I think the most they can handle is about 5 mm.

[MunkyMan95]

These are even thicker than the original UHR saints?

[Conder101]

Yes, the original UHR Saints were 34 mm in diameter, these new coins are slightly lighter but are only 27 mm in diameter so they have to be considerably thicker A 900 fine gold disk 34 mm in diameter that weighs 33.436 grams has to be 2.15 mm in thickness.

 

A gold disk of 999 fine gold weighing 31.1 grams and 27 mm in diameter has to be 2.88 mm.

 

Hmmm, forget my last two posts I obviously had a screw loose somewhere. ( I don't know how I came up with 9 mm.) Yes it will be thicker than an UHF, but it WILL fit in an NGC slab.

 

(The pattern 1907 double thickness double eagle was 33.436 grams of 900 fine gold and 27mm in diameter. It would have been 3.4 mm in thickness. The extra weight and lower density made a big difference.)

[Oldtrader3]

The thickness of 0.112" (2.88mm) is nearly 1/8" thick. BTW, the diameter of 27mm (1.064") for this UHR Saint is approximately half way between a quarter and a half dollar.