Will it Slab? Grade Opinions? 1822 Large Cent

[Catbert]

Bought this from Doug Bird at Central States. Any opinions from the learned crowd (!) on whether it would slab and estimated grade?

 

 

 

 

Close up of planchet flake:

 

 

Thanks to all!

[MunkyMan95]

I'm 50/50 on it. The color looks a little odd to me, especially on the obverse around 8 o'clock (is that a stain?).

[Raybo55]

That is a nice 1822! (thumbs u

Copper is a very fickle metal (very reactive IMHO) so I don't see why it should not grade.

 

Ray

[TomB]

What did Doug Bird tell you? He knows his stuff very well and had the benefit of owning the coin.

[Catbert]

I did not ask him the slabbing question. I figured he was hostile to that idea given most of his coins were raw on display and that I supposed that most EAC devotees do not favor plastic. I did ask him his estimate of the grade and I will tell, but would like some other opinions.

[MarkFeld]

My grade guess would be AU50 and I think the color looks OK. I hope you didn't buy it with the intention of having it graded, rather than just buying one that was already in a holder.

[EZ_E]

It looks like a good coin to me and should slab no problem but after reading LeeG's post of his copper bb then I ...don't ...know.

[Catbert]

My grade guess would be AU50 and I think the color looks OK. I hope you didn't buy it with the intention of having it graded, rather than just buying one that was already in a holder.

 

Mark - thanks for giving me your thoughts. No, I didn't buy it with that intention (I just like the look of the coin), but who knows, I may send it in the future.

[ldhair]

My first thought was EF45.

[MarkFeld]

My first thought was EF45.

My second thought was EF45 But I went with my guess of AU50, due to the apparent luster and remaining red/brown.

[bsshog40]

I think this looks to be about EF40. My concern would be what looks like some carbon spots going on which may be considered as environmental damage??? I nice looking Large Cent to have raw though.

[okbustchaser]

Real grade 40 to 45...Slab grade 50. Yes, IMO, it will slab.

[ldhair]

My first thought was EF45.

My second thought was EF45 But I went with my guess of AU50, due to the apparent luster and remaining red/brown.

My second thought was AU50:) But I must admit, that was only after reading some coinguy's post.

[braddick]

As long as the PVC just right of the seventh star is not active, you shouldn't have a problem having it slabbed.

[James_OldeTowne]

I think it will get unfairly body-bagged. But then again, I would definitely not want the coin in a slab, either.

[MikeInFL]

Catbert, I still think it's a 40.

 

I think it will get into plastic -- as you know I have (gasp) several large cents in slabs including an 1821 with very similar coloration/surfaces -- it might take more than one try though to get this one in a slab.

 

Regardless of the grade or the slab (or lack thereof) -- I like that coin a lot & thank you for sharing it..Mike

[Raybo55]

My grade guess would be AU50 and I think the color looks OK. I hope you didn't buy it with the intention of having it graded, rather than just buying one that was already in a holder.

 

Mark - thanks for giving me your thoughts. No, I didn't buy it with that intention (I just like the look of the coin), but who knows, I may send it in the future.

 

If you send it in for grading and it comes back in a BB I will give you face for it...it will not be worth much more than that anyway.

 

Ray

[MarkFeld]

I think it will get unfairly body-bagged......

Why?

[physics-fan3.14]

As long as the PVC just right of the seventh star is not active, you shouldn't have a problem having it slabbed.

 

I'm really surprised it took someone this long to mention that. I noticed it as soon as I looked at the coin. In my opinion, anything green like that on copper, whether it is actually PVC or just verdigris, should result in a no-grade. It's just a small spot now, but with copper's high reactivity, that could be quite an eyesore in the future.

[Catbert]

As long as the PVC just right of the seventh star is not active, you shouldn't have a problem having it slabbed.

 

I'm really surprised it took someone this long to mention that. I noticed it as soon as I looked at the coin. In my opinion, anything green like that on copper, whether it is actually PVC or just verdigris, should result in a no-grade. It's just a small spot now, but with copper's high reactivity, that could be quite an eyesore in the future.

 

What do you recommend that I do about that? It is much more pronounced in the picture than what can be seen with the naked eye. Pictures can be very unforgiving!

 

I would hate to have my coin eaten alive by green stuff!

[Raybo55]

A short acetone bath?

 

I did it on a copper coin that is not worth nearly as much as yours.

 

I know it's hard to see (obverse at 12 o'clock), before acetone.

 

After acetone.

 

Just leave it for the experts,

 

Ray

[1798CentCollector-migratio]

The coin has nice eye appeal and overall nice surfaces. Does look like a minor spot of verdigris right of star 7. Grade an EAC 35 plus to 40. IMO nice copper shows much better raw than slabbed.

[MikeInFL]

As long as the PVC just right of the seventh star is not active, you shouldn't have a problem having it slabbed.

 

Hi Pat!

 

Is that PVC, or could it be a spot of corrosion?

 

Curiously yours...Mike

[Raybo55]

My bad,

 

I posted the reverse!

 

Here is the pre-acetone obverse, i'll have to dig up the after image.

 

Sorry,

 

Ray

[James_OldeTowne]

I think it will get unfairly body-bagged......

Why?

I think it has been recolored.

[MarkFeld]

I think it will get unfairly body-bagged......

Why?

I think it has been recolored.

Thanks James. If you feel that way, why would you say "unfairly" with respect to "body bagged"?

[braddick]

As long as the PVC just right of the seventh star is not active, you shouldn't have a problem having it slabbed.

 

Hi Pat!

 

Is that PVC, or could it be a spot of corrosion?

 

Curiously yours...Mike

 

On early copper, especially brown copper, if the spot is green,such as the one shown, I think PVC.

 

If the spot is blackish/dark brown or a dark gray, I think corrosion.

[James_OldeTowne]

I think it will get unfairly body-bagged......

Why?

I think it has been recolored.

Thanks James. If you feel that way, why would you say "unfairly" with respect to "body bagged"?

Because an enormous number of recolored copper coins have been certified by PCGS in the past.

 

I once bought seven PCGS encapsulated large cents out of a Superior auction. Six of them were, in my opinion, recolored, and three of those six were for sure recolored because they had a known provenance, and when previously sold, were "still cleaned". Curiously, I sent just one of them in for grading at NGC (at a customer's request), and NGC bagged it for artificial color (which I expected).

 

If a company is going to accept "some" recolored copper coins, and reject others, there ought be at least some rationalization as to why.

[coinman1794]

I think it all comes back to the amount of time spent on each coin. So many coins would grade differently if they went through the line twice...hint for NGC.

[BillJones]

AU-50

 

I don't know. This coin shows a lot of wear on the face and in the hair to rate that grade, but perhaps that is slab grading for copper. My guess is that EAC grading would give it a VF-30 or a 35.

 

As for slabbing, the red corrosion patch on the left side of the obverse would be enough to get a body bag if I submitted it. Getting early copper coins into slabs is a tricky business, and it’s one of the reasons why early copper is so hard to find in certification holders. The major copper dealers don’t like slabs, and if you submit the stuff yourself it’s a dice game as whether or not it gets a body bag. I’ve submitted EAC condition census pieces and not been able to get them graded, yet I see problems pieces, that I would put in my collection in slabs.

 

Oh and by the way, speaking of grading, this 1793 Wreath cent (S-11c) is in an AU holder. When I bought years ago it was graded VF-35. Even if you agree with the AU in terms of wear, there are a couple of rim bumps, which should have knocked off 5 or 10 points. Oh well, like I said, I have no idea what goes on in the mind of TPG grader when it comes to early copper.