Some may know but I am pretty well done ....

[jgrinz]

Submitting ANY coins to NGC.for ANY service.

 

Case and Point.

 

I sent in a Multi holder to upgrade a few coins in it. MY 1967 SMS #3 position Set

 

THEY TOOK the liberty to say a coin already singularly holdered by them was now spotted in the holder - one I wanted installed into the multiholder ( I did not see any spots ) they regraded it.

 

It was sent in as a REHOLDER service for insertion into a multi holder NOT A REGRADE service. Did they in fact STEAL my coin which is tough to find - 1967 SMS Kennedy MS68 'w' They down graded the COIN TWO POINTS from and MS68 to a supposed 66.

Obviously NOT acceptable for the reason doing the reholder in the first place.

 

They kindly offered to holder the other coins into the multi set for nothing - a $35 dollar value for 'purchasing the coin back'

 

Can you understand my disgust with this company OR are you siding with them ...

 

My Analogy would be my business doing an Oil Change and Tune up for a customer who only wanted an oil change. The bill being $275 but I knocked $35 dollars off the bill because of our mistake because we did a service not wanted or needed.

 

If any one has any time also - Please attempt to find a comparable coin

1967 SMS MS68 Kennedy ( White ) and provide pricing and location please.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Schatzy]

Hello,

 

I found a 1967 SMS MS-68

This way to the coin

 

I couldn't find any of the old holders with the white on the label.

 

Sorry to here about the coin.

[MarkFeld]

If you haven't already done so, you should call them and ask to be put in touch with the right person in order to be fairly compensated for the down-grade of a re-holder submission.

 

No, they didn't "steal" your coin, and even if you didn't see the spots, they saw them or something else, or wouldn't have taken the step of down-grading the coin.

 

While I don't blame you in the least for being upset about what apparently transpired, I have no doubt that the grading services often blindly re-holder coins that should be down-graded, instead.

[jgrinz]

Hello,

 

I found a 1967 SMS MS-68

This way to the coin

 

I couldn't find any of the old holders with the white on the label.

 

Sorry to here about the coin.

 

Bought it thank you Schatz

[jgrinz]

If you haven't already done so, you should call them and ask to be put in touch with the right person in order to be fairly compensated for the down-grade of a re-holder submission.

 

I have Mark and that was all the compensation they would allow me.

 

Tell me this - Do YOU think they have the RIGHT to RE-GRADE ANY COIN that gets submitted under ANY service without prior consent or authorization to do so ...

 

In a WAY it is theft as I did not get MARKET VALUE for the coin and DID NOT get the Service RESULT I paid for ( MS68 SET )

 

When I pay for a service I expect that service and nothing more !

 

I know they didnt steal it but did they damage it I am not a stupid person and do not buy PLASTIC for PLASTICS sake ... ( I know you were not implying that )

but the coin did not have spots!

 

 

 

[Larry Dreher]

I really feel NGC should compensate you for the difference in value between the two grades. If you specifically asked for a reholder, that is the only thing you should get, not a regrade.

 

If you had noticed the problem and sent it in for an appearance review wouldn't NGC be on the hook for compensation then?

[MarkFeld]

If you haven't already done so, you should call them and ask to be put in touch with the right person in order to be fairly compensated for the down-grade of a re-holder submission.

 

I have Mark and that was all the compensation they would allow me.

 

Tell me this - Do YOU think they have the RIGHT to RE-GRADE ANY COIN that gets submitted under ANY service without prior consent or authorization to do so ...

 

In a WAY it is theft as I did not get MARKET VALUE for the coin and DID NOT get the Service RESULT I paid for ( MS68 SET )

 

When I pay for a service I expect that service and nothing more !

 

I know they didnt steal it but did they damage it I am not a stupid person and do not buy PLASTIC for PLASTICS sake ... ( I know you were not implying that )

but the coin did not have spots!

 

 

I think they have a right to re-grade a coin if 1) they see an obvious problem with it AND 2) compensate the owner fairly. If it happened to me I would call again and ask to speak to someone else.

[Just Bob]

I think they have a right to re-grade a coin if 1) they see an obvious problem with it AND 2) compensate the owner fairly. If it happened to me I would call again and ask to speak to someone else.

 

I'm not familiar with their procedures, so I'm wondering: is it standard practice for the TPG's to do this (re-grade without it being specifically requested) without first contacting the submitter?

[jackson64]

I usually agree with your well thought out points Mark--but on this I must disagree......ownership of the coin AND holder belongs to the submitter, they hold no rights at all as a SERVICE to perform any action they choose on anothers property--especially when it was clearly determined what service was requested by the owner...they should have contacted him first or sent it back, refusing to reholder at the old grade...

 

and there is no question-at the least--that full compensation for the value difference should be awarded. Don't they compensate when one sends in a coin one might buy that is overgraded and that person asks for a grade review? If downgraded they usually pay your loss...thought that was part of the grade guarantee..( this last part I'm sincerely asking because I'm not sure)

[jgrinz]

I think they have a right to re-grade a coin if 1) they see an obvious problem with it AND 2) compensate the owner fairly. If it happened to me I would call again and ask to speak to someone else.

 

I'm not familiar with their procedures, so I'm wondering: is it standard practice for the TPG's to do this (re-grade without it being specifically requested) without first contacting the submitter?

 

It is now probably BECAUSE of peer pressure - In My Opinion.

[MarkFeld]

I'm not familiar with their procedures, so I'm wondering: is it standard practice for the TPG's to do this (re-grade without it being specifically requested) without first contacting the submitter?

 

It is not standard practice and is an extremely rare occurrence.

 

I usually agree with your well thought out points Mark--but on this I must disagree......ownership of the coin AND holder belongs to the submitter, they hold no rights at all as a SERVICE to perform any action they choose on anothers property--especially when it was clearly determined what service was requested by the owner...they should have contacted him first or sent it back, refusing to reholder at the old grade...

 

and there is no question-at the least--that full compensation for the value difference should be awarded. Don't they compensate when one sends in a coin one might buy that is overgraded and that person asks for a grade review? If downgraded they usually pay your loss...thought that was part of the grade guarantee..( this last part I'm sincerely asking because I'm not sure)

I am not at all surprised that you and others disagree with me on this issue and I understand and respect your opinions. I also agree about the submitter being due full compensation (edited to add: and advance notification/discussion on the matter) and would very much like to hear NGC's side of the story.

 

I called NGC, made them aware of this thread and hope that Mike is taken care of.

 

[jgrinz]

Thanks for the call Mark and Scott has called but missed his call.

I will keep you informed of the outcome.

 

[jackson64]

Mark--you are as always a class act. I'm glad you're a member of our little community here..

[jgrinz]

PayPal Shopping Cart Contents

Item Name: 1967, MS68, NGC, SMS, Kennedy #019

Quantity: 1

Total: $180.00 USD

Cart Subtotal: $180.00 USD

Shipping: $2.50 USD

Sales Tax:

Cart Total: $182.50 USD

 

***

 

I purchased the FIRST coin at around the same price level as this one I just purchased thanks to da' Schatz - so if you do the Math I am into this whole fiasco for a little dinero ...

 

Now that I have Reestablished the set with this coin do I even attempt to try to get it installed into my Multiholder

 

 

 

 

 

[EZ_E]

I usually agree with your well thought out points Mark--but on this I must disagree......ownership of the coin AND holder belongs to the submitter, they hold no rights at all as a SERVICE to perform any action they choose on anothers property--especially when it was clearly determined what service was requested by the owner...they should have contacted him first or sent it back, refusing to reholder at the old grade...

 

and there is no question-at the least--that full compensation for the value difference should be awarded. Don't they compensate when one sends in a coin one might buy that is overgraded and that person asks for a grade review? If downgraded they usually pay your loss...thought that was part of the grade guarantee..( this last part I'm sincerely asking because I'm not sure)

 

A similar thing happened to me with NCS.

 

The main point is that any coin or slab submitted to NGC or NCS is merely in their custody. It is not their property and they have NO right to take any action apart from the service for which the coin was submitted!

 

I've often heard of PCGS coins coming back dipped w/o consent.

 

I sent in a proof silver Jefferson nickel NGC PR67 that had nice color. The obverse had more corrosive toning but the reverse had the most gorgeous sky blue toning over Monticello. I wrote 3 times for the to conserve only the obverse and not to touch the reverse. Guess what? Request denied! They did what they damn well wanted to and destroyed my property. It was also downgraded from a 67 to a 65.

 

If someone came to my home and treated my property like NCS did then I promise you that I would seriously hurt that individual. But these whitecoats hide behind a company logo and feel that they have free liberty to do to other people's property what they personally deem appropriate. And all along, NCS is second guessing NGC. They said the toning was residue. NGC said the coin was worthy of the proof 67 grade.

 

This happened over 4 years ago but I am still very upset over the whole matter.

 

[WinstonWare]

I'm gonna side with them

[bsshog40]

I'm gonna agree with Jackson here also. I may be wrong, but I would think that the TPG would have a little leverage here as to re-holdering a coin and re-grading it at the same time. If taken from an MS68 and re-holdering it back into an MS68 holder, that it would be in thier best interest to make sure the coin is still MS68. If not, then I'm with Mike also that they should have made him aware of the re-grade and compensated him for the difference. Looks like Mark is being helpful again as usual and I hope things get done right for you Mike. Also, nice pickup on that other Kennedy.

[BankNote1]

It shouldn't of taken a call from Mark to get NGC to do what they should of done in the first place!

[ant]

i am going to call mike in recieving tomarrow, they shipped 2 orders that went the same day in 2 different overnight fed ex boxes costing me a 2nd shipping charge when they didnt need to.

 

but thats not as bad as what they did to you! i shed a tear for you! and good luck.

 

also a big thanks to mark

[Oldtrader3]

I still have a 1921 Peace dollar that PCGS dipped because it was darkly toned. They couldn't grade it, did not call me, dipped it and, when I questioned Customer Service (?), they said they did not dip it and it "turned white in the return packaging". Maybe it was delivered back from PCGS by the Tooth Fairly and she decided to make it braaaaaand new! I still have the coin and am still chapped about it!

 

NGC should pay you fair market value for the down grade, or they should have sent you back the coin in the original holder if they did not want to reslab it. They have sent me back ANACS slabbed coins in the slab that they would not grade. They should do the same with their graded coins. I would not stop doing business with them though until they have had a reasonable opportunity to make it right. It could fallen through the crack or been a problem of institutional memory loss because they grade so many coins.

 

[ant]

im done also now grinz. i got charge 4.92$ for each coin to be shipped back to me. they shipped 2 orders the same day in 2 different huge boxes which cost me 120.00+ in shipping alone.

 

all they could say is " you didnt ask us to send in same package" . well i didnt ask them to get me charged this much either

[cpm9ball]

It would help to read the instructions. It specifically asks if you want everything to be shipped together or if you want them shipped as they are completed if you have separate submission forms.

 

Chris

[Doogy]

It would help to read the instructions. It specifically asks if you want everything to be shipped together or if you want them shipped as they are completed if you have separate submission forms.

 

Chris

 

exactly. in his case it is user error, for failing to read the submission instructions. can't blame NGC for that one.

[MikeInFL]

Mark, That was very nice of you!

[coinman1794]

As of late, it seems to be NGC's policy to attempt conseravtion on any coins that pass through (it doesn't matter what service or tier) that seem to have developed a problem. If the conservation fails to remove the problem, the coin will be downgraded. That is a great service to them and their customers; they ensure the quality of their product and custors get the benefit of an accurately graded coin.

 

The problem in your case is that they forgot to compensate you for the downgrade. I normally get a call from them when this happens. You will need to contact them and explain that they owe you for the difference in value.

[MarkFeld]

As of late, it seems to be NGC's policy to attempt conseravtion on any coins that pass through (it doesn't matter what service or tier) that seem to have developed a problem. If the conservation fails to remove the problem, the coin will be downgraded. That is a great service to them and their customers; they ensure the quality of their product and custors get the benefit of an accurately graded coin....

.

Except that in many cases submitters don't want their coins "conserved" and "conservation" doesn't always improve coins. Additionally, sometimes after "conservation" the grade of the coin isn't lowered when perhaps it should be.

[ant]

yes my mistake was mine, but they should never touch a coin in any other way than we asked them to.

 

in some minds that is "destruction of proporty" . when over a certin amount it is felony!

[coinman1794]

I should clarify that I'm not a fan of conserving any and every coin that has something on the surfaces. The coins I am talking about (those that have been conserved without my asking) are coins that were improperly dipped and had harmful dip spots. That is a good thing because, if the spot is allowed to continue eating into the surface... Let me also add that conseravtion does not necessarly mean dipping or making the coin white (actually I consider dipping a form of cleaning, not conservation).

 

Now, I have also had nice original coins conserved without my consent and this is not something I condone. And, I do believe NGC is treating the vast majority of toned coins they receive with denatured alcohol or acetone to stabilize them. I've lost some nice color to this process, and almost 100% of my toned coins have come back lighter in the past 6 months to a year. I'm actaully afraid to submit some of my toners!

 

As far as coins being conserved that probably should have downgraded...I have sent such coins back for a second examination, and they were usually bought back or downgraded. Conservation aside, I send a lot of coins in to be downgraded because I won't sell anything that has too many marks for the grade or does not live up to its designation.

 

[jgrinz]

It would help to read the instructions. It specifically asks if you want everything to be shipped together or if you want them shipped as they are completed if you have separate submission forms.

 

Chris

 

In my CASE I had wanted all returned in one package and the whole lot got LOST ... it was in thier SAFE ... probably figuring how to tell me about the 1967 SMS ... TIME LAPSE - 2 months

 

I have not talked with SCOTT as of yet as I just got back form the CAPE. My Return call to him on Friday, he was not in his office, and did not respond to my page.

 

 

[jgrinz]

As of late, it seems to be NGC's policy to attempt conseravtion on any coins that pass through (it doesn't matter what service or tier) that seem to have developed a problem. If the conservation fails to remove the problem, the coin will be downgraded. That is a great service to them and their customers; they ensure the quality of their product and custors get the benefit of an accurately graded coin.

 

The problem in your case is that they forgot to compensate you for the downgrade. I normally get a call from them when this happens. You will need to contact them and explain that they owe you for the difference in value.

 

They did offer me $35 dollars the Reholdering fees ... This does not come close to what I paid for the coin and for me subsequently having to replace the coin in like grade to keep my set as I had desired to have it made.