Are all 2004 U. S. Proof Set SMS?

[P. J.]

If not, where do non SMS proof coins come from? Thank you for any responses.

 

PJ

[cpm9ball]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the proofs are not SMS. The Mint Sets are SMS and are made for collectors, not general circulation. The coins made for general circulation, more commonly known as "Business Strikes", are distributed by the Mint in bags and rolls. Some of the rolls have Mint wrappers and some of them have bank wrappers.

 

Chris

[RI AL]

Hi.

 

Special Mint Sets are not "proof sets". If I recall correctly, SMS were minted in 1965-67 during the "coin shortage" to meet needs of collectors but the coins are not proofs. They are a higher quality UNC piece than regular strikes, however.

 

RI AL

[19Lyds]

To the best of my knowledge, there were no SMS coins produced in 2004. 2005 was the beginning of the Satin Finish Mint Sets from the US Mint.

 

A lot of times, folks confuse coin terminology often interchanging Proof Sets and Mint Sets since there are a lot of folks selling coins that do not really know what constitutes a proof coin. Its a set, its from the mint, heck, why not call it a Mint Set even though they are referring to Proof coins.

 

1965, 1966, and 1967 were SMS sets but 1994 and 1997 also produced the Jefferson Nickel SMS coins in some of the US Mint Commemoritve Sets. 1998 also saw the production of a SMS Kennedy Half. I may be wrong but NGC refers to these coins as Specimen coins with an SP designation instead of PF or MS.

[physics-fan3.14]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the proofs are not SMS. The Mint Sets are SMS and are made for collectors, not general circulation. The coins made for general circulation, more commonly known as "Business Strikes", are distributed by the Mint in bags and rolls. Some of the rolls have Mint wrappers and some of them have bank wrappers.

 

Chris

 

To the best of my knowledge, there were no SMS coins produced in 2004. 2005 was the beginning of the Satin Finish Mint Sets from the US Mint.

 

A lot of times, folks confuse coin terminology often interchanging Proof Sets and Mint Sets since there are a lot of folks selling coins that do not really know what constitutes a proof coin. Its a set, its from the mint, heck, why not call it a Mint Set even though they are referring to Proof coins.

 

Correct! :thumbsup:

[WoodenJefferson]

Follow-up to already correct information

The 2004 Mint Set has 2 pylofilm lenses which contain coins from the Denver Mint (red boarder)

and coins from Philadelphia Mint (blue boarder) The coins are considered Business Strike but get

a bit of special handling at the mints. Since they are packaged separately, they should show less contact

marks and in most cases will show a strong strike.

 

 

 

The 2004 Proof Set has 2 acrylic lenses and contain coins from the San Fransico Mint. The clad proof coins

are specially manufactured especially for collectors using specially polished and prepaired dies along

with highly polished planchets (coin blanks) Each of the coins are struck more than once to produce

mirrored surfaces with frosted (cameo) devices.

 

The mint also sells Silver Proof sets which contain 90% silver coinage.

State Quarter lenses of 5 clad or 5 silver quarters can also be purchased seprately

[P. J.]

Thanks to all for your valuable information, and examples. I admit that I made an error in my terminology. If I understand correctly, 2004 and 2005 mint sets get the SMS designation because of the satin finish, and special handling by the Mint. So do I understand this correctly. If I want a 2004, or 2005 coin that is not SMS, I need to buy a roll of the coin I am looking for, or find one already certified?

 

PJ

[bsshog40]

Actually the Satin Finish didn't start until 2005. They are not considered SMS as this refers to Special Mint Strike. The 2005 to date just have what they call a Satin Finish, unlike rolls that are business strike finish which is, should I say shiny?

[WoodenJefferson]

NCG Link to SMS Designation

 

P.Judge, read this link provided by NGC

 

Previous to 2005, from 2004 on down, coins graded out of Mint Sets just got a MS (Mint State) designation

 

When the Mint went to the Satin Finish in 2005 NCG will give those coins a SMS designation.

 

Announcement from Mint:

 

The United States Mint announces that it will begin selling the 2005 United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Set on May 31, 2005, and for the first time ever, the set will have a satin finish.

The United States Mint has chosen the new satin finish because it is handsome and provides consistency for United States Mint uncirculated products, including the Uncirculated Coin Set, Commemorative Coins and American Eagle Silver Bullion (uncirculated) coins. The satin finish, which will be continued on uncirculated coin sets in the future, will also help collectors differentiate between Uncirculated Coins in the United States Mint Uncirculated Coin Sets and those coins in bags and rolls that have never circulated.

 

[CHABSENTIA]

I know that there were SMS sets minted 1965-1967 because there were no proof sets minted during that time and these sets were supposed to be a better quality mint set to take the place of the proofs.

 

They are not considered proofs. If you look in say the Kennedy register here you will see that there was a mint set in 1965 and a SMS set . One is labeled as a 1965 MS and the other is labeled as a 1965 SMS MS. so there are no poofs for those years.

 

SMS is just the abbreviation for Special Mint Set.

 

 

[19Lyds]

I know that there were SMS sets minted 1965-1967 because there were no proof sets minted during that time and these sets were supposed to be a better quality mint set to take the place of the proofs.

 

They are not considered proofs. If you look in say the Kennedy register here you will see that there was a mint set in 1965 and a SMS set . One is labeled as a 1965 MS and the other is labeled as a 1965 SMS MS. so there are no poofs for those years.

 

SMS is just the abbreviation for Special Mint Set.

 

There were no "Official" US Mint mint sets or proof sets produced in 1965. Or 1966 or 1967 for that matter. There were Special Mint Sets which were created with a process similar to the proof production process but these were not proofs.

 

The US Mint did produce regular business strike coins during the 3 years above and these would be correctly referred to as the MS coins but to imply that there was a 1965 US Mint Set is simply not correct as no such mint set was ever produced.

I'm certainly not chastizing you as I know what you are saying but for the newbie's reading this it's important to understand that only SMS Sets were produced during 1965, 1966, and 1967. Mint Set and Proof Set production resumed in 1968 with the proof coins being produced at the San Francisco mint.

[CHABSENTIA]

I think you need to read the box where you quoted me again. I distinctly wrote that

 

"there were not any proof sets produced in 1965-1967".THis was in the first paragraph. In the second paragraph you quoted I also said that "so there aren't any proofs for those years".

 

Then you go on to state yourself that they were created with a "processs similar to the proof production process but these were not proofs"

 

Then you go on to say that you are not chastising me but it is important..........

 

Are you "reading challenged". I had already stated at least twice that there were no proof sets produced between 1965-1967. so why you had to act as if you were correcting me by stating that it is important for people to know that "there were no proof sets produced is beyond me.

 

Apparently you didn't go to the Kennedy Registry as I suggested. here are the steps.

 

1. Click on the Coin registry

2. Click on half dollars

3. Click on the last registry set at the bottom which are the Kennedy sets.

4. On the next screen then you can either click on "scores' or look at the Registrys themselves.

 

 

You will see that there is a slot for the

1. 1965 50C

2. 1965 SMS 50c

3.1966 50C

4. 1966 SMS

5. ETC.

 

 

Now since there were no proof sets produced for 1965-1967 and there is a separate slot for the 1965 and the 1965 SMS

 

I mentioned in my post that people needed to go to the Kennedy Registry and check for themselves. I didn't think I had to explain it in detail..

 

 

It is true that Uncirculated Mint sets were sold by the Treasury from 1947 -1964. No Official Mint sets were produced in 1950,1982 or 1983.. .In 1965-67 there were SMS,. or special mint sets. . Acoording to the "Red Book' similar sets dated 1964 are reported to exist.. Sets issued from 2005 onward have a Special Satin finish that is somewhat different from the the finish on Uncirculated coins made for general circulation.

 

Again my three points were.

 

1. There were no proofs issued from 1965-67

2. There were SMS coins issued for this period which refers to Special Mint Sets.

3. There is a difference between the Special Mint Sets issued between 1965-67 and the special satin finish from2005.

 

What I said about the Kennedy Registry is true and I still don't know why you had to repeat the thing about the 1965-1967 proofs that I had mentioned at least twice?

 

 

Click o

[Conder101]

Probably because you said

If you look in say the Kennedy register here you will see that there was a mint set in 1965 and a SMS set

which is wrong because there was no Mint Set made in 1965 and that was the point of 19Lyds post. He was not disagreeing with you about the proof coins at all, just clarifying for anyone who isn't familiar with what was produced then that there was no regular Mint set. A concept that your post had "muddied".

 

What I said about the Kennedy Registry is true

What, that it claims there were regular mint sets made in 1965? I seriously doubt it. I admit I have not actually gone to check and see if it does make such a major mistake, but I would find it to be very embarrassing for PCGS if it does.

[P. J.]

The registry 2005 mint set has slots for non sms coins. Where do I find them?

[WoodenJefferson]

The registry 2005 mint set has slots for non sms coins. Where do I find them?

2005-P&D Business Strike Kennedy Half Dollars and Sacagawea Golden dollars only come from a U.S. Mint Roll or US Mint Bags, whereas the Mint Sets had Satin Finish issues only. Dealers, people on e-bay buy these rolls and or bags and sell the coins individually or in sets because these coins, the Kennedy halves and the Sakies have not yet been released into circulation.They can be purchased raw in BU GEM condition or already graded and encapsulated. Buy only top tier graded coins for your own protection.

 

2005 Statehood Quarters, Roosevelt dimes, Jefferson nickels and Lincoln cents from both Denver and Philadelphia have been released for circulation by the US Mint, so many avenues are available for these coins. TV, dealers, auction houses, e-bay...they can be bought raw in Uncirculated BU (Brilliant Uncirculated) condition or already graded. Once again only purchase graded coins from top tier grading companies.

 

Keep asking til your satisfied...that also plays out to other posters who may have additional information or corrections.

 

I get corrected all the time so I'm kinda numb to the process...I've been married to the same woman for 38 years.

 

[CHABSENTIA]

Amazing. " I have not checked but..........."If you go to the Last registry set for the Kennedys then you will see that Naranjo has the top set.

 

In the 65 slot for the Kennedy he has a MS65 for that slot. His next slot is a 1965 SMS CA69. These sre the designations. He has a 1966 MS slot and then a 1966 SMS slot CA etc.

 

 

 

This is the NGC regisrtry slot and not the PCGS,however, you will see that both NGC and PCGS are used in this Regisrty as a 1965 MS Slot and a 1965 SMS CA slot.

 

 

Don't criticize me. I merely put this observation in a post. If people have a problem with it then they need to Contact NGC nad PCGS for an explanation instead of being so anxious to critcize me even though " they haven't checked and it would be embarassing for the "TPG".

 

Again, I merely posted my observations and the fact that there were no Proof Sets minted on 1965-1967.I also posted the designations in the NGC Registry and how trhey were listed.

 

 

 

If it was me then I would have gone to the Registry I designated and either pointed out a reason for the designation as posted or posted that this was not the case instead of saying " I didn't check it but".

 

 

Now what happens if the "Newbies" that certain people are trying to protect from making a mistake go to this Registry and see the 1965 MS designation?

 

 

It would be nice if the :knowledgeable people give a reason for what I posted. instead of criticizing it.

[Conder101]

OK I have gone and looked and here is the reason. You apparently don't understand what they mean by MS65.

 

It has NOTHING to do with the existence of a regular mint set or any kind of mint set. All it means is that the coin is a regular uncirculated business strike coin that has been graded at the 65 level. It says nothing about where that business strike coin came from. Apparently you saw the SMS and realized that meant "Special Mint Set" and then saw the MS, assumed it meant "Mint Set" and reported that they made both regular mint sets and special mint sets in 1965.

 

I also note in PCGS's Mint Set registry that they have apparently used the term Mint Set to mean "year set with all mints" rather than a true "Mint Set" because they have Mint Set Registry entries for many years when Mint Sets were not produced.

[P. J.]

Thank you all for your contributions, and comments. I now know what I am looking for and where to find it so I can complete my set.

 

PJ

[19Lyds]

Don't criticize me. I merely put this observation in a post. If people have a problem with it then they need to Contact NGC nad PCGS for an explanation instead of being so anxious to critcize me even though " they haven't checked and it would be embarassing for the "TPG".

.

.

.

.

It would be nice if the :knowledgeable people give a reason for what I posted. instead of criticizing it.

 

NOBODY WAS CRITICIZING YOU!

 

I'm certainly not chastizing you as I know what you are saying but for the newbie's reading this it's important to understand that only SMS Sets were produced during 1965, 1966, and 1967.

 

I specifically stated I was not chastizing you but simply trying to clarify that regardless of what you saw in the "Regisrty" the US Mint did not produce a business strike US Mint Set in 1965! They produced business strike coins which are recognized apart from their SMS brothers and they are much more difficult to get in high grade especially since there were no mint sets produced in that year!

 

 

Now what happens if the "Newbies" that certain people are trying to protect from making a mistake go to this Registry and see the 1965 MS designation?

 

Hopefully they will ascertain that there were business strike coins produced the same as they did in 1932 but NOT that there were Mint Sets produced during those years. A slot in any registry does not mean that business strike mint sets were produced.

 

Nobody is trying to start a shoving match here just trying to clarify that there were no business strike mint sets produced during 1965 as your post stated. (None were produced in 1966, 1967 or 1932 either )

 

If a newbie wants to find out what years had Mint Sets, all they need to do is either consult their Redbooks or go to Coinfacts dot Com.

 

Thanks for covering my back Conder! I think your post was clear and to the point without having to go to a Registry.

[CHABSENTIA]

Conder compounded the problem and made it worse. I stated three points.

 

1. There were no proofs made in 1965-1967.

2. The SMS sets in 1965 -1967 were a substitute for the prrofs

3. If you go to the Registry for the Kennedys and choose the last one avaible for them then you will see a slot for the MS Kennedy in 1965-67.

 

Conder did in fact defend you, however, in doing so he not onlt criticized me but even made the remark "that he did not check the Registry but the TPG should be embarrassed". This is not only erraneous but is the case for a very simple reason.

 

There has to be a slot for the MS Kennedy because there were 65,879,366 of the 1965 Kennedy minted in that year as well as pennies, nickles dimes and quarters.This was the same case in 1966 and 1967 but in differing amounts.

 

While it is true that there were no Official mint sets containing a package which consisted of all the denominations in the P-D mints they were still minted.

 

I stated " that there was a slot for the 1965-1967 MS Kennedy. I never said and NGC never stated that they were from an Official Mint Set. I specifically used the word "Slot" to demonstrate so there would be no confusion.

 

I mentioned that I had problems with your post because you not only quoted me referring to the fact that in at least two sentences I mentioned that there were no Proofs made in 1965-1967.Then you not only seemed to feel that there was a need to say that ther were no Proofs made which gave the impression that this was the first time it was mentioned but to include the sentence that " you were no chastising me" To me this gives the impression that not only did you feel a need to make the statement again that there were no prrofs made but you were in fact correcting me.

 

This was further re- enforced by Condor "covering your back " as you state by saying" I have not checked the Registry but that I was wrong and that if the "slot" was in fact listed in the Registry that it was embarassing for the TPG".

 

You are further compounding the issue by stating that Conder was correct. He was not correct and neither are you because by making this statement you are agreeing with his ridiculous statement that there is no slot for the MS in 1965 -1967 even though I gave specific examples of the various Registrys and the fact that both PCGS and NGC holdered MS Kennedys for those years.

 

Your first post might have been vague,however, in this last post by supporting Conder and your previuos statements then you are stating that not on ly is NGC and PCGS incorrect but that the Red Book and the U.S,. Mint by posting MS Mintages for those years are lying/wrong.

 

You are further being obstinate by saying to Conder that "you don't have to check the Registry".

 

In light of the above then you either don't know what you are talking about or in Self Denial.

 

So according to you then everybody else is wrong and you are right. don't let the facts get in the way.

[19Lyds]

Conder compounded the problem and made it worse. I stated three points.

 

1. There were no proofs made in 1965-1967.

2. The SMS sets in 1965 -1967 were a substitute for the prrofs

3. If you go to the Registry for the Kennedys and choose the last one avaible for them then you will see a slot for the MS Kennedy in 1965-67.

 

Item three in your list is not what you said.

 

Lets recap what you did say regarding item 3.

 

They are not considered proofs. If you look in say the Kennedy register here you will see that there was a mint set in 1965 and a SMS set . One is labeled as a 1965 MS and the other is labeled as a 1965 SMS MS. so there are no poofs for those years.

 

You said nothing regarding MS only that you will see that there was a mint set in 1965 and a SMS set to which I replied:

The US Mint did produce regular business strike coins during the 3 years above and these would be correctly referred to as the MS coins but to imply that there was a 1965 US Mint Set is simply not correct as no such mint set was ever produced.

 

It appears that the only person "compounding" anything would be CHABSENTIA who has taken exception to the fact that he was corrected for stating:

"you will see that there was a mint set in 1965 and a SMS set".

 

Perhaps CHABSENTIA is confusing MS (which means Mint State) with Mint Set?

 

At this point though, I guess it doesn't really matter as it has become obvious that you are set on defending your statement regardless of how incorrect it may be or appear to be.

 

[CHABSENTIA]

In the most recent messages you applauded Conder and agreed with Condor when I stated that there was an MS Slot in the Kennedy Registry.He replied that this was not the case and if so that it would be embarassing for the TPG.You not only agreed but you again applauded him and said " Thank you for getting my back and stating that you need no go to the Registry to verify it".

 

 

 

You also made a statement about Business Strikes.Even though I have stated them before I will expand them.

 

Mintage for the Kennedy

1.1965- 65,879,366

2. 1966-108,984,932

3.1967- 295,046,978

 

Special Mint Sets

 

1. 1965 - 2,360,000

2.1966- 2,261,583

3.1967-1,863,344

 

 

You do not reply to the fact that I have stated several times that there is a slot for the Kennedy MS in the Registry sets.I made three main points and that was

1. There were no Proof sets made in 1965-1967

2. SMS sets were made in lieu of the Proof sets.

3.There was an MS slot for the Kennedys in the Registry.

 

 

I did mention in an original post and include the word " mint set".. To me the fact that there were MS pennies , nickels and dimes produced in those years is a Mint Set. It is not an Official Mint set in that they were not packaged all together and sent out as 1965 P-D etc,.

 

I also clarified that in a later post. Instead you ignore this and deleiberately include an earlier quote where I mentioned Mint set.

 

Instead of taking the main points that I have iterated time and time again, you just ignore them and take points out of context.

 

It has to be deliberate as you do not reply to the later statistics I have given i the last posts.

 

The part that is the worst is that although I have mentioned several times that there is a slot for the MS coin in the Kennedy Registry and have even emphatically mentioned that I did not say in any post that it was from a Mint set is the most telling. In this latest post you are trying to to confuse the issue by quoting an earlier sentence in a long post out of many where I used the term "mint set" although my later posts refer to not only the exact opposite but only an MS slot.This is further demonstrated when you agree with Conder that " if the TPG Registry did have an MS slot for the 1965 Kennedy then it was embarassing for the TPG".This demonstrates that you not only agree that there was no MS produced for that year but you further compound it by not only agreeing but stating "you don't have to check the Registry to see this fact.

 

 

There were a total of some 6 million SMS sets produced in the years 1965-1967.

 

 

Of course there is a slot for the 1965-1967 Kennedy. It defies the imagination to think that only 6 million Kennedy 50c pieces were produced in those three years .

 

 

The posts are there about it being embarassing and you not only agreed with it but componded the statement by agreeing with it and " stating that you don't have to check the Registry to know it. Denying that a slot does not exist for the MS Kennedy denies its existence periond. Using the earlier excuse that "mint set" was referred to even though it was not only clarified later in the sense that I saw a difference between :mint set'' and Official Mint set" is Semantics.

 

I clarified it in each later post specifically by giving the statistics for each year and the defintion of an Official set.as opposed to a Mint Set. If I had not clarified it in a later post then that would be one thing. By listing the actual defintion of an Official Mint set and not replying to the Specific definiton as wellas the Mintages is quite the opposite and by not replying to it and quoting the word "mint set" etc is another thing.

 

What is not Deniable is the clarification in successive posts and the faillure to address them along with the remark/s about the "slot".

 

[19Lyds]

Hmmm. Went to the NGC Registry for Kennedy Half Dollars, Silver, 1964-1970 MS and Proofs

 

Slot Name Coin Description

1964 1964 50C

1964 1964 50C PL

1964-D 1964 50C D

1964-D 1964 50C D PL

1964 Proof 1964 50C

1964 Proof 1964 ACCENT 50C HAIR

1964 Proof 1964 50C CA

1964 Proof 1964 ACCENT 50C HAIR CA

1964 Proof 1964 50C UC

1964 Proof 1964 ACCENT 50C HAIR UC

1965 1965 50C

1965 1965 50C PL

1965 SMS 1965 SMS 50C

1965 SMS 1965 SMS 50C CA

1965 SMS 1965 SMS 50C UC

1966 1966 50C

1966 1966 50C PL

1966 1966 50C DDO VP-001

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C CA

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C UC

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C DDO VP-002

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C DDO VP-002 CA

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C NO "FG"

1966 SMS 1966 SMS 50C DDO VP-002 UC

1967 1967 50C

1967 1967 50C PL

1967 SMS 1967 SMS 50C

1967 SMS 1967 SMS 50C CA

1967 SMS 1967 SMS 50C UC

1968-D 1968 50C D

1968-D 1968 50C D PL

1968-S 1968 50C S

1968-S 1968 50C S CA

1968-S 1968 50C S UC

1969-D 1969 50C D

1969-D 1969 50C D PL

1969-S 1969 50C S

1969-S 1969 50C S CA

1969-S 1969 50C S UC

1970-D 1970 50C D

1970-D 1970 50C D PL

1970-S 1970 50C S

1970-S 1970 50C S CA

1970-S 1970 50C S UC

 

I don't see anything for 1965 MS ?

 

However, since the set covers ALL Kennedy halves, both mint state and proof, I can understand why the set is named "MS and Proof" I also know that MS stands for Mint State and not Mint Set as the two terms are not interchangeable.

 

BTW, Conder101 was not incorrect in anything he stated and I would stand behind his opinions and knowledge on any day! You are just so totally "consumed" in the fact that you were corrected on what you said that you can see no further than that.

 

With that said, it is really too bad that this thread has been hijacked by the two of us to hash out this insane argument! My apologies to the OP!

[Conder101]

CHABSENTIA

 

I think you have the qualities of being a politician down pat. Say something that is incorrect and when called on it first insist you are right then later deny you ever said it. Then deliberately mis-state the comments of others to try and shift the focus from your error to the "error" made by someone else. Sorry but I don't think it's going to fly here.

[bajablu]

[EZ_E]

 

Geez, give it up already, Chabby. :þ The US Mint only released SMS's from 1965-1967, Any regular business strike coins were found in rolls, bags or in change as singles. That was the only point trying to be made. No need to write a dissertation.