Updated 4-3: What action should I take with respect to my client?

[MarkFeld]

These are the particulars.....

 

I shipped a $600 coin to a client on approval basis by registered mail on March 10th.

 

I have done business with the person for about 3 years and he has purchased several coins from me on this basis, never with any problems.

 

A day or so after I shipped the coin I received an order for it from another client, so I told him the coin was out on approval and that I'd let him know if it became available.

 

On approximately March 17th, I emailed the client I had shipped the coin to and asked if he had received it, etc.

 

On March 18th, I received this reply:

 

"Hi Mark. Looks like they tried to deliver the 53 A&R on Friday. The delivery noticed slipped to the bottom of the mail box and I just found it this morning. I'll get by the post office today or tomorrow to pick up the coin.

 

Tom"

 

According to the USPS tracking information, the package was signed for 3 days later, on March 21'st.

 

Since that time I have not heard back from the client again.

 

I have sent 3 emails, none of which have bounced back and I have not received any auto replies indicating that he was out of his office, as I have on one or two occasions in the past.

 

I have also left two voice mail messages at his home, stating that I'm trying to find out whether he is keeping or returning the coin, that I had another order for it and that I am somewhat concerned for a number of reasons, including the fact that this situation is very much out of character for him.

 

In the second message, which I left yesterday, I even asked that if someone else there got my voicemail that they please call me and let me know if he is ill or out of town for an extended period of time. By the way, in the first message I left I didn't mention a coin - I referred to a package. However, I ship to his home, so presume that his wife probably knows about his collecting.

 

I moved locally and got a new PO Box, shortly after I shipped the package. Thus, I realize that he might have returned the coin or sent payment for it to my old address by mistake and that it simply hasn't been forwarded yet. But if that's the case, a simple email or phone call would have sufficed.

 

To my knowledge he is not a forum member.

 

So, what action, if any, should I take? Should I contact the postal inspector? How long should I wait? Is there any point to sending additional emails or making any more phone calls? Thanks in advance for your input.

 

 

[cpm9ball]

It is possible that he (family, too?) is out of town and hasn't yet received your messages. Since he has been a good customer, I'd give him a little more time. As a precaution for future transactions, why don't you ask if he has a cell phone so you can contact him when the need arises?

 

This situation reminds me of the old adage, "Familiarity breeds contempt." I'm not suggesting that he is using you, but it is possible that over the years he has become "comfortable" with your demeanor, and he has taken a little too much for granted on this occasion.

 

Chris

[IGWT]

The package was signed for on March 21, which was a Friday, and it's not uncommon for folks to take some time off around this time of year (although, if that's the case here, it would have been more courteous to let you know).

 

Looking at it from the collector's prespective -- we have the dealer's view covered -- I wouldn't necessarily be happy with a dealer who pushes for a decision within a period that's shorter than the time allowed for a return. That kind of inquiry, when coupled with a comment that you have another buyer for the coin, starts to feel like a pressure tactic. And many collectors (including me) don't respond well to a hard sell.

 

As I understand the situation, you e-mailed him 3x and called him 2x during a period when he's supposed to be able to take his time to consider the coin. That seems like a bit much to me and potentially at odds with the customary return period.

[braddick]

I've never understood why it takes a collector (or, dealer) more than a couple of minutes to decide whether they're going to keep a coin on memo, or not- let alone a few days.

 

Mark, I believe your concern is justified.

[IGWT]

I've never understood why it takes a collector (or, dealer) more than a couple of minutes to decide whether they're going to keep a coin on memo, or not- let alone a few days.

 

I don't necessarily disagree; but, you have to consider the parties' expectations. If the arrangement calls for a one-week period, then the collector reasonably expects not to be pressured during that period, and the dealer should expect that the collector might choose to use all the time available.

 

As for the particular circumstances of Mark's case, I have no idea what might be going on . . . .

[TomB]

"Hi Mark. Looks like they tried to deliver the 53 A&R on Friday. The delivery noticed slipped to the bottom of the mail box and I just found it this morning. I'll get by the post office today or tomorrow to pick up the coin.

 

Tom"

I realize Mark wrote that this person is likely not a forum member, but I want folks to know it isn't me!

 

Now, onto your dilemma. I will go through your time frames as I understand them so that there is less chance of confusion.

 

You mailed the coin via Registered Mail on a Monday (March 10) and the first notice to the client was sent via email the next Monday (March 17) to see if the coin had arrived. The client responded on Tuesday (March 18) that the slip for the coin actually arrived on the previous Friday (March 14) and that he would sign for it shortly. The client then signed for the package on Friday (March 21). You have since then sent three emails and left two phone messages for the client, the last of those phone messages left on Monday (March 31).

 

If this is correct then I think the client is being less than completely reliable in this instance. The first is that the client should not have waited a full week to take possession of the coin once he had notification of its arrival in the Post Office. While many of us cannot drop everything to sign for a coin, there is a limit to how long one should allow someone else to have their money tied up into a potential, but not finished, transaction. Additionally, regardless of whether or not the client keeps the coin, the client should have informed you by this time as to his decision. You do not state on what days you sent your followup emails or if they preceeded the voice messages, though of course you do mention the last voice message, so I cannot tell if you were being patient enough with this client prior to the attempts at followup contact.

 

Your website states-

Five day unconditional return privilege, from the time the coin is received until the time it is shipped back. Return privilege may be extended upon request.

I will assume that there were no prior arrangements to keep the coin for a longer period of time than five-days. In my opinion there are two ways that one might interpret "from the time the coin is received" and these two ways would be either as to when the coin arrived in the local Post Office and a slip was left or from when the slip was actually signed. In either interpretation, the client's return period has expired and it expired on either Wednesday (March 19) if based upon the Post Office slip or Wednesday (March 26) if based upon signature and receipt.

 

Of course, without email or phone confirmation you cannot know if the coin has been sold or if it is en route to you as a return. At this point I would let your other client know that the coin is in "approval limbo" and that the sales status is unknown while I would also wait until Thursday (April 3) to email the first client and let him know that the coin has not yet been received and no information as to the status of the coin has been received, either. The reason I would wait until Thursday (April 3) is that this would be just over a week after the latest return date would have passed and would likely be enough time for the coin to be returned via Registered Mail.

[Dcoin]

Mark- next time you call, try using a payphone or a blocking your #. He may be screening his calls. Good luck I hope it works out in the end.

[MarkFeld]

I've never understood why it takes a collector (or, dealer) more than a couple of minutes to decide whether they're going to keep a coin on memo, or not- let alone a few days.

 

I don't necessarily disagree; but, you have to consider the parties' expectations. If the arrangement calls for a one-week period, then the collector reasonably expects not to be pressured during that period, and the dealer should expect that the collector might choose to use all the time available.

 

As for the particular circumstances of Mark's case, I have no idea what might be going on . . . .

Lou, I don't pressure my clients into making decisions or into purchasing my coins. In fact, based upon their questions, comments and feedback, I am far more likely to talk them out of buying my coins.

 

In this particular case, the coin had been at the customer's PO box for a week before he even signed for it. So, while I offer a 5 day, no questions asked return policy (and have always been flexible when someone wanted/needed more time), I feel that at the very least, I was owed the courtesy of an update, several days ago. And it has now been an additional 11 days since the package was signed for.

 

It is possible that he (family, too?) is out of town and hasn't yet received your messages

Chris, that is certainly possible. However, as I mentioned, in the past when my client has been out of the office, my emails to him have generated auto replies, indicating that he is out of the office. I have not received auto replies to my three most recent emails.

 

I sincerely hope that there has not been some emergency and that he and his family are OK.

[IGWT]

Lou, I don't pressure my clients into making decisions or into purchasing my coins. In fact, based upon their questions, comments and feedback, I am far more likely to talk them out of buying my coins.

 

I know this, Mark. All I meant to say is that the person on the other side of the deal might wrongly perceive otherwise. Of course, if you have a history of dealing with him, this kind of misunderstanding shouldn't occur.

[jesbroken]

Mark,

After having the luxury of reading all the posts and getting a feel for this situation, I would give the customer 3 more days and call him at work. If you don't have that number you should be able to garnish it from his company email address(usually owned by the employer). At least the company would tell you if he were gone on an extended leave for whatever reason. Patience will opt the better solution to this ordeal.

Jim

[Oldtrader3]

He probably knows that the post office will not take any action until (30) days after the item was signed for. When that period has elapsed, I would go after him. By that time, I would assume that he is purposely evading payment and is stealing your money whether intentionally or not. Most people do not have that poor a memory, unless he has Alzheimer's or dementia.

[gmarguli]

First off, I wonder why you are shipping a $600 coin by Registered Mail. It's cheaper to ship using regular mail with insurance. Or better yet, why not have a private insurance policy? Now for your situation...

 

Since the buyer has done business with you in the past and it has been OK transactions and he also contacted you about this transaction, I'd just wait a little longer before doing anything - probably a week. It's very possible that the buyer sent you a check or returned the coin, but it went to your old address.

 

If that is not the case, after establishing contact with the buyer and hearing their reason for the delay, I'd then consider whether or not to do doing business with him in the future. Rude buyers and slow payers are not worth dealing with. However, at this point I'd not do anything for the next several days. The PO usually forwards mail pretty quickly and you'll know if he paid/returned soon enough. If not, call and harass.

 

Also, is it possible that he did respond to you, but you didn't get it? I recall the last coin (hanging my head in shame as it was a Kennedy) I purchased from you, I sent you notice that I received it and I was keeping it and I mailed off payment that day. However, a few days later you contacted me asking about my intentions with the coin.

[EZ_E]

You see, Mark, you're being punished for not sending me that quarter in the first place!

 

I still would like it if it works out that way.

 

It is annoying that people take the liberty on our dime to delay payment as long as possible. I sold a 1950 D nickel on ebay a week ago and still haven't heard a word from the guy.

 

What is a man to do?

[MarkFeld]

First off, I wonder why you are shipping a $600 coin by Registered Mail. It's cheaper to ship using regular mail with insurance. Or better yet, why not have a private insurance policy? Now for your situation...

 

Since the buyer has done business with you in the past and it has been OK transactions and he also contacted you about this transaction, I'd just wait a little longer before doing anything - probably a week. It's very possible that the buyer sent you a check or returned the coin, but it went to your old address.

 

If that is not the case, after establishing contact with the buyer and hearing their reason for the delay, I'd then consider whether or not to do doing business with him in the future. Rude buyers and slow payers are not worth dealing with. However, at this point I'd not do anything for the next several days. The PO usually forwards mail pretty quickly and you'll know if he paid/returned soon enough. If not, call and harass.

 

Also, is it possible that he did respond to you, but you didn't get it? I recall the last coin (hanging my head in shame as it was a Kennedy) I purchased from you, I sent you notice that I received it and I was keeping it and I mailed off payment that day. However, a few days later you contacted me asking about my intentions with the coin.

Greg, I do have private insurance and I agree, it would have been less costly (though perhaps not better, as I don't think the tracking information is as good) for insured mail - salt on the wound

 

I also agree about waiting to do anything else for about a week. However, I'm not convinced that I will be able to establish any contact with him later.

 

Yes, It's possible he responded by email but that I didn't receive it, although my voice mail messages should have made that clear. Coincidentally, I am having email issues today In your case, I think you sent a PM to me through the NGC site, where I occasionally do have problems with messages. By the way, did you ever have any luck with that Kennedy half?

[CHABSENTIA]

He is saying on the 18th that "it looks like they tried to deliver it on Friday " which means they tried to deliver it on the 14th. If it was signed for on the 21st then that means it took four days later to go to the Post Office and sign for it assuming it had slipped to the bottom of the mailbox.

 

If you have done business with this individual before and you have say a 5 day approval period after receiving the coin then this means that even after discovering the delivery slip and knowing there was a 5 day approval policy then he still waited another 4 days to sign for it.

 

I would assume that you either send these approvals on a regular basis or that he knew you were sending a coin for approval. I would assume he knew it was coming since he referred to the actual coin. If I know that a coin is coming then I make sure that I I have checked the entire mailbox tro make sure I have taken everything out .I certainly wouldn't let it go three days knowing that a $600.00 coin was in the mail if my mailbox was accessible to other people.

 

Even though you say that you did not mention it was a coin in your message/s he knew it was a coin as he referred to the 53 AR on the 18th.

 

 

Waiting 4 days after admitting that it was in limbo for 3 days would not make me feel good.You only have his word that it was in limbo for three days instead of waiting 7 days to sign for it.

 

Maybe things have changed but it used to be that if the Party was no there to sign for the package that it was returned to the P.O and a slip was left and if it was not picked up in two or three days that another slip was left as a reminder to pick it up.If this is still the case then he would have been obligated to pick it up if he had received a second notice.

 

 

Finally the guy has not seen fit to have the courtesy to answer your messages etc. Considering all the above I would be reluctant to do business with the person in the future especially if he returned the coin and his actions caused me to lose the 2nd customer.This is April 1 and if it was mailed on the tenth then we are talking 3 weeks.

[CHABSENTIA]

That was my point.

[jgrinz]

You should be able to get a copy of the SIGNATURE to see who actually signed for the package

Good Luck

 

 

 

 

[gmarguli]

I also agree about waiting to do anything else for about a week. However, I'm not convinced that I will be able to establish any contact with him later.

 

I've had two experiences where long-time, repeat buyers dropped off the face of the earth for long periods of time. Both were situations where I did not first ship the coins. One I tracked down by finding his wife and contacting her at her work email. Turns out a move, a DSL installation delay, and major computer problems prevented the buyer from contacting me. All turned out well.

 

The other was just this month and I finally got contact from him yesterday. I'm not sure the reason why just yet, but he was gone for a month. Doubtful it is the same person as yours, but this guy was in Northern California.

 

So in my experience, people don't just go from good customers to vanished overnight.

 

Have you googled his name to see if there are any recent reports (death / fraud) about him? That's how I found the wife of my first buyer. I was checking to see if he was dead.

 

 

Yes, It's possible he responded by email but that I didn't receive it, although my voice mail messages should have made that clear. Coincidentally, I am having email issues today In your case, I think you sent a PM to me through the NGC site, where I occasionally do have problems with messages. By the way, did you ever have any luck with that Kennedy half?

 

ATT / SBC / Yahoo internet for you? If so, I'm also having email problems today.

 

The Kennedy I just received back yesterday from NCS/NGC. NCS was able to remove all but one of the spots on the reverse and NGC graded the coin PF67 Ultra Cameo. According to recent TeleTrade sales, that makes it a $900 coin. I'll give you first shot at listing it on your web site.

 

[cpm9ball]

Mark, if the customer lives in Florida, PM me his address and I'll repo it for you without charge.

 

Chris

[just-john]

my guess is that it simply hasn't been forwarded yet.

[World Colonial]

I know that dealers send coins on approval to repeat clients but it still seems risky to me. I was surprised recently when a dealer sent me some coins I bought before my check cleared. I ordered them by phone and have bought from this delaer several times before.

 

I believe that some business (not coins) keep a customer's credit card number on file so that they have the option to charge it if something like this happens. Its not foolproff obviously and I'm also not sure that would go over well with coins, but I believe it is a reasonable precaution to take.

[coinman1794]

It sounds like this person is not holding up his end of the deal. Barring the possibility that something happened to him, he needed to contact you on March 21st. Once it gets to 2 weeks, send him a message and let him know you will need to take action. If he doesn't respond, he was forwarned.

[EZ_E]

What actions can you [font:Comic Sans MS]REALLY[/font] take?

[Bruceswar]

What actions can you [font:Comic Sans MS]REALLY[/font] take?

 

Across state lines is a federal offense... over $500.00 So he has big guns on his side.

[stev32k]

My feeling is the guy is either sick, traveling, or maybe just a procrastinator. I would try to call his home in the evening say around 7:00 or 8:00. Someone should be there at that time - if they are not out of town. Since you have done business with him before without problems it does not seem like he is trying to rip you off.

[MarkFeld]

What actions can you [font:Comic Sans MS]REALLY[/font] take?

Victor, now what kind of defeatist attitude is that from the very guy who could potentially end up with the 1853 Arrows & Rays Quarter if I get it back? Seriously, though, at some point I would consider contacting the postal inspector.

 

My feeling is the guy is either sick, traveling, or maybe just a procrastinator. I would try to call his home in the evening say around 7:00 or 8:00. Someone should be there at that time - if they are not out of town. Since you have done business with him before without problems it does not seem like he is trying to rip you off.

I can't see him trying to rip me off either, and in the past he hasn't been a procrastinator. I would be angry, rather than concerned if I didn't think that there must have been some type of illness or emergency.

[gmarguli]

My feeling is the guy is either sick, traveling, or maybe just a procrastinator. I would try to call his home in the evening say around 7:00 or 8:00. Someone should be there at that time - if they are not out of town.

 

3:00 AM or 4:00 AM they will be there and probably too tired to screen their calls.

[michael]

e mail him today and ask that he contact you by april 5 so you can get this situation put to rest

 

and if you do not hear from him by april 5

 

you will be contacting the postal inspectors

 

and then say hope everything is okie and please contact you at his earliest conveinence as you NEED TO GET this matter resolved in a timely manner

 

[CHABSENTIA]

Shouldn't make a difference. The guy sent him an E Mail that the attempted delivery notice "slipped down in the mail box'.

 

 

At one time, he had physical possession of it.Anytime that I have gone to the P.O. they want the slip. You have to show I.D. and then sign for it. If it was to addressee only then he had to sign for it and if it was to the address then the wife could sign for it.Either way the guy knows who has possession of the slip.

 

 

One scenario nobody has mentioned is that the guy could be trying to sell the coin for more than $600.00 to somebody else .

 

Assuming there is no Emergency then the guy is stone walling for some reason due to the time involved.

 

1. First it slipped down the rabbit hole (Alice)

2.Then it took four more days after that to sign for it after discovering it

3. The guy knew there was a coin coming for approval but didn't look out for it?

4.Then took four more days after discovering it then took four more days to sign for it knowing there was an approval period.

 

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

If I was too sick to make a phone call or Email etc then I would ask my Wife,Son or Daughter to do it for me.

 

 

If I have a good relationship with a person and have received something on approval then I would want the sender to be aware of the situation etc.