Another concern for all of us...

[braddick]

I've been in email contact with two counterfeiters out of China going on nine months now. One thing I've learned is they don't have the same moral/legal problem with these counterfeits and we do here in the states.

 

Secondly, it has been offered (and, not accepted!) the proposal of having genuine coins- say an MS64 1925-S Peace dollar, sent and "slabbed" in a counterfeit PCGS MS65 holder (Remember, many thousands separate the grade).

 

I've learned although their activities are pure shannanigans, they are honest in the sense that you WILL get your coin, as in this example, your Peace dollar, back as promised. (No real concern that they're going to rip you off on their end and not send back the coin.)

 

Just a tap on the shoulder that this problem isn't just counterfeit coins within counterfeit slabs but also genuine, albeit lower grade coins, holdered in fake slabs.

 

Lastly, from what little I've gathered, the next generation of replica slabs will take into consideration all of the issues and problems of the first generation slabs and be more difficult to detect.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

And a huge concern it is. I can envision the day not too far in the future, where dealers and collectors will be equipped with some type of hand-held device that allows them to check out the slabs to make sure they are legitimate. And each grading company will offer that service for free at designated tables at shows.

 

This problem is obviously going to get far worse, and I wonder how many counterfeiters and coins are really out there for every one we just happen to be aware of.

[EZ_E]

It is similar to quality, man made diamonds. They are so flawless that only a special machine that runs a current through the diamond can tell if it is a mined diamond or man made.

[pendragon1998]

(Coins aside) if the only way you can tell a man-made diamond from a natural one is with a machine that runs electrical current through the diamond, does it even matter at that point which one you're buying?

[ant]

testing a diamond is with heat! a fake diamond or man made will hold the heat different. when a diamond tester is touched to the diamond it sends heat to stone and how long that heat stays tells the make up.

 

also the chances of a flawless / colorless in genuine is like finding a 4ct every ten feet in years of doing jewelry i have only gottin my hands on 2 flawless diamonds.

 

[zrlevin]

(Coins aside) if the only way you can tell a man-made diamond from a natural one is with a machine that runs electrical current through the diamond, does it even matter at that point which one you're buying?

 

If you can't tell that the coin you just bought is counterfeit, would it still matter to you?

[ant]

it depends on how much i paid for said fake. i have baught some coins that ended up being fake but i didnt pay much so it didnt hurt much. but if i spent thousands on a coin to be real and it was fake id have a heart attack!

[cpm9ball]

Pat, maybe everyone should just go back to buying nothing but raw coins and have them holdered themselves.

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

(Coins aside) if the only way you can tell a man-made diamond from a natural one is with a machine that runs electrical current through the diamond, does it even matter at that point which one you're buying?

 

If you can't tell that the coin you just bought is counterfeit, would it still matter to you?

 

A man made diamond is not counterfeit although it would be unethical to sell them for the same price as a mined diamond.

 

Me? I bought man made diamonds for my wife at a fraction of the cost with 10 times the quality.

 

Diamonds are a fake, artificial market that is constantly manipulated. A person would be lucky to get half of what they paid for a commercial diamond from a dealer. It is a one-sided market that is only sustained by marketing to a woman's desires.

[ant]

o and diamonds dont last for ever flaws like FEATHERS can cause fracture points. also any stone no matter the hardness is breakable.

 

you are more likely to get a better deal from a small jeweler than say zales.if you go into zales like 85% of there stones are (SI2-I3) you are paying a huge mark up! GIA doesnt even do "certs" for zales anymore cause they wanted better grades for stones that were ugly (I1) diamonds.

 

i wear lots of bling and i have stones that are far better and brilliant than stones in zales and i paid a miniscule price.my jewelry biz is based on the fact i can build a nice custom ring for less than buying at a big store.

 

but this also makes me think of the BLOOD diamonds. they are real but it is ILLEGAL to own/sell blood diamonds. sort of like the gaudens that we cant own. they are there but "ILLEGAL"

 

* as long as there is a market, there will be fakes in everything.

[gmarguli]

I can envision the day not too far in the future, where dealers and collectors will be equipped with some type of hand-held device that allows them to check out the slabs to make sure they are legitimate.

 

I can envision the day not too far in the future, where dealers and collectors will be equipped with some type of knowledge that allows them to check out the coins to make sure they are legitimate.

 

Of course, I joke....

[RGT]

Diamonds are a fake, artificial market that is constantly manipulated. A person would be lucky to get half of what they paid for a commercial diamond from a dealer. It is a one-sided market that is only sustained by marketing to a woman's desires.

 

You're making the diamond market sound almost as bad as the modern MS/PR70 market.

[EZ_E]

Diamonds are a fake, artificial market that is constantly manipulated. A person would be lucky to get half of what they paid for a commercial diamond from a dealer. It is a one-sided market that is only sustained by marketing to a woman's desires.

 

You're making the diamond market sound almost as bad as the modern MS/PR70 market.

 

It's worse!

[James_OldeTowne]

Just a tap on the shoulder that this problem isn't just counterfeit coins within counterfeit slabs but also genuine, albeit lower grade coins, holdered in fake slabs.

I have never had any question at all that the bigger problem would be genuine coins bumped a grade into a fake slab. In fact, when counterfeit rattlers were being made fifteen years ago, that was the biggest fear!

 

My, how things change (not).

[PerryHall]

(Coins aside) if the only way you can tell a man-made diamond from a natural one is with a machine that runs electrical current through the diamond, does it even matter at that point which one you're buying?

 

If you can't tell that the coin you just bought is counterfeit, would it still matter to you?

 

It would matter when it's time to sell it.

[Dcoin]

The ingenuity of a thief is limitless.

 

The only solution I can offer is to imprint the actual coin with a mark that is only visible under special light or other conditions.

 

Alas, in the end, the thief will find a way duplicate this process as well.

 

[TJ'S Coins]

Here is where CAC approval would provide a measure of comfort for the wary collector.

[James_OldeTowne]

Here is where CAC approval would provide a measure of comfort for the wary collector.

As easily as these people in China counterfeit slabs, I don't see any way they would have a problem counterfeiting CAC stickers by the barrel full. I don't doubt for a second that there are already counterfeit CAC stickers on slabs.

[realone]

"Just a tap on the shoulder that this problem isn't just counterfeit coins within counterfeit slabs but also genuine, albeit lower grade coins, holdered in fake slabs."

 

I thought we already had the problem of lower graded coins in a genuine higher grade holder.

 

 

[bajablu]

Does anyone here think this will ruin the coin market altogether?

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Did the "Coin Vault" or HSN, Coin Kountry, Jimmy Girstel, or any of the other venues ruin the coin market? NO!

 

This is just another hurdle to overcome in this hobby...pass the baton and the Chivas Regal

[bajablu]

I can see where some may leave the hobby after buying from these venues, but they do sell legit stuff. It may be over priced or over hyped, but I dont recall ever hearing about fakes from any of them.

 

 

[rrantique]

Here is where CAC approval would provide a measure of comfort for the wary collector.