Will NGC and PCGS bear any liability for the counterfeit slabs?

[James_OldeTowne]

In other words, will they be found accountable for not providing a slab that is sufficiently difficult to fake?

 

I hope not, but in our litigious society, you can see just that coming....

[MarkFeld]

Legally, I don't think that a buyer of a counterfeit slab would prevail against a grading company.

 

What reasonable/realistic standard would/should fairly be required for a grading company to make its slab immune to counterfeiting? Have there been successful lawsuits against the makers or suppliers of other products which have been counterfeited? Please note, that is not meant to be a rhetorical question.

[CoinZip]

I do not see how you could hold the manufacture of the real product accountable for a counterfeit product.

 

 

 

 

 

[michael]

i do not think that pcgs/ngc are liable for any counterfeit slabs

 

there are super counterfeit 100 dollar bills and i do not think the usa is liable for them if some unsuspecting schmuck gets one for payment

[MBA101]

Hey, just use common sense and don't put yourself in a position to have to deal with counterfeit slabs. Don't buy from any unknown dealers, especially on ebay.

 

And I think these boards (NGC, PCGS, Copinzip, etc) allow us all to get to know legit sellers (and buyers) so that for us the problem will never come up.

 

As far as the other unsuspecting schmucks, well, they will get an education, but just as likely, they may never know the difference anyway.

 

PCGS, NGC, ANACS should not be held accountable. Nothing can be done now about the millions of older slabs. Just not practical. And any shrewd counterfeiter could just as easily sell counterfeit rattlers or fatties if PCGS/NGC to really throw collectors for loops. So educate yourself and ignore all sellers who do not have perfect English!

[Conder101]

<< PCGS, NGC, ANACS should not be held accountable. Nothing can be done now about the millions of older slabs. Just not practical. And any shrewd counterfeiter could just as easily sell counterfeit rattlers or fatties if PCGS/NGC to really throw collectors for loops. So educate yourself and ignore all sellers who do not have perfect English! >>

 

That's a sentence fragment! MBA101 does not have perfect English! Don't buy from him! Don't buy from him!

[okbustchaser]

That's a sentence fragment! MBA101 does not have perfect English! Don't buy from him! Don't buy from him!

 

That's right!! Everybody take heed. Then when he has to give up one of his bodacious busties I'll be the only buyer. I can get them ALL FOR PENNIES!!!

 

Thanks Condor.

[Doogy]

I agree with the others, they have little to no liability here.

 

In a similar vein, I hope Alan from Coinzip is open to input from the forum if we start to see fake slabs trickle over from ebay, to his site.

 

 

[PerryHall]

If you buy a fake Gucci bag, should Gucci reimburse your money? I think not!!!

[WoodenJefferson]

Dooney & Bourke, Macy's $165

 

Dooney & Bourke, Nuevo Laredo knock-off $65

[michael]

 

i'll take 3 pleaze

[cpm9ball]

In other words, will they be found accountable for not providing a slab that is sufficiently difficult to fake?

 

I hope not, but in our litigious society, you can see just that coming....

 

Let's put it this way, James. Suppose you receive some counterfeit currency in change for a purchase but aren't aware they are fake. A few days later you use those same counterfeit bills in an attempt to make a purchase. The store clerk recognizes that they are counterfeit and the police are summoned. It is determined that you are an innocent victim even though you can't remember who passed them to you, but the police still confiscate the counterfeit bills. What recourse do you have? Do you sue the BEP because they should have been more diligent with their designs to thwart counterfeiters? I don't think so!

 

Chris

[bsshog40]

Not the same words, but was going to be my example also there Chris!

[pendragon1998]

Dooney & Bourke, Macy's $165

 

Dooney & Bourke, Nuevo Laredo knock-off $65

 

Those are the exact same photo.

[zrlevin]

Dooney & Bourke, Macy's $165

 

Dooney & Bourke, Nuevo Laredo knock-off $65

 

Those are the exact same photo.

 

'Twas just to prove a point.

[Houston Investor]

I don't see any reason why they should.

[Conder101]

The only thing they have going against them is that PCGS established a precedent last time by buying back all of the counterfeit slabs.

 

Now that action isn't binding upon them, and there were some differences last time in that the number of fakes was small, and the counterfeiter was arrested and unable to continue producing more fake slabs. In this case while the number MAY still be small, the counterfeiter is still at large and is likely to remain so, and there is nothing to stop him from continuing to produce a never ending supply of fake slabs. In fact it could become a lucrative business just making fake slabs and selling them to the TPG's if they did a buy back.

[bochiman]

The original question seems very silly and almost something to just stir the pot.

Examples have already been given as to why they should not be held accountable so I won't repeat those.

 

 

[RWB]

No.

Also, one should not be awarded damages when one spills their coffee, or runs into a tree while skiing, or takes a nap on railroad tracks.

 

[cpm9ball]

No.

Also, one should not be awarded damages when one spills their coffee, or runs into a tree while skiing, or takes a nap on railroad tracks.

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u (thumbs u

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

No.

Also, one should not be awarded damages when one spills their coffee, or runs into a tree while skiing, or takes a nap on railroad tracks.

But what if they didn't know the coffee was hot and could burn them? And what if they didn't know that trains sometimes run on railroad tracks and can cause harm if they run you over? Now the skiing thingy about the trees I agree with.

 

 

[Conder101]

Now the skiing thingy about the trees I agree with.

What? You mean the trees won't get out of the way?

[just-john]

Lucky for me when ever time I try to run with ski's I fall down way before ever seeing or hitting a tree.

if your going to run -run if you going to ski -ski TUCO

Buono, il brutto, il cattivo, Il (1966)

[bochiman]

Now the skiing thingy about the trees I agree with.

What? You mean the trees won't get out of the way?

 

Not only will they not get out of the way, but they actually keep jumping in the way on some of us!

[James_OldeTowne]

I think we are underestimating the persistence of a certain litigious class of folks in our society. If somebody can be sued for selling coffee that's "too hot", or for failing to properly salt an icy sidewalk, then sure as you are reading this, someone can sue NGC for failing to have sufficient security features to prevent counterfeiting of their slabs.

 

I trust everyone understands that I find that despicable. I'm just saying - it can happen.

[okbustchaser]

Why should the TPG be liable? They didn't authenticate it. Is Gucci liable if your knockoff handbag comes apart at the seams? Is Rolex liable if your "Submariner" that you bought over the internet for a tenth of what a genuine one costs quits working?

 

Of course, like James, I realize that the common sense idea that a company shouldn't be held accountable for the criminal actions of some other organization doesn't in this society doesn't mean that it wouldn't. That would require people to actually take responsibility for their own actions.

[just-john]

Don't think the TPG have to worry but some of the big auction houses would or could be liable if they advertised as NGC OR PCGS this or that would not be surprised if we don't see some type of disclaimer in the auctions about fake slabs