Why do I no longer accept returns of NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG coins sold on eBay?

[James_OldeTowne]

I have received several questions about this new policy. In my eBay listings, I clearly state in bold type:

 

Due to eBay's recent short-sighted policy changes for coins, I no longer accept returns on PCGS, NGC, ANACS or ICG items.

 

Please remember this applies ONLY to my eBay sales - I guarantee all coins sold otherwise for 30 days regardless!!

 

Here is my explanation, which I guess I'll need to start adding to all my eBay listings:

EBay has deemed that only coins in NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG may be advertised with a numeric grade and/or the term "certified" in auction headings. What this implies is that only those entities are considered capable of stringent grading. Further, eBay has deemed that only they are qualified to "certify" coins. Therefore, such coins in the "big 4" holders are set apart from uncertified coins with the implication that they never make errors.

 

The implication is that "the grade IS the grade" as applied by a "big 4" grading service. Since the grade is considered an absolute fact, and is already guaranteed by the grading service, why should an additional guarantee be need by the seller of such a coin? If there is disagreement over the acceptability of a certified coin's grade, the issue should be referred to the certifying company, not the seller. That is the whole point of certification.

 

A seller's guarantee should not be the same for certifed vs. uncertified coins, per the eBay definition of each. Clearly, preference is given certified coins. A certified coin is already guaranteed to meet the only specification that matters according to eBay (the certified numeric "grade"), therefore, an additional guarantee by a seller of such a coin is superfluous.

[EZ_E]

James, there's too much rambling for a bidder to want to read. Edit it down to a short paragraph. (thumbs u

[Zoins]

I agree it's too much to read.

 

It looks like a rant. I'd remove "It makes no sense."

 

eBay treats NCG and NCS differently so to be consistent you may want to mention NCS. eBay also allows ICCS.

[Tradedollarnut]

You are cutting your own throat with that policy. I would certainly never buy from any seller under those conditions except in very unique circumstances [ie: a coin where the value is not really contingent much on the grade such as a circulated chopmarked trade dollar].

[jgrinz]

You are cutting your own throat with that policy. I would certainly never buy from any seller under those conditions except in very unique circumstances [ie: a coin where the value is not really contingent much on the grade such as a circulated chopmarked trade dollar].

 

I going to have to agree with TDN on this one. Though the sentiments are appreciated by all of us here, it would basically put you in a catagory ALMOST by yourself. 95% of other vendors on Ebay take back returns no questions asked RAW or SLABBED, so do you not think someone would rather BUY coins elsewhere than from you Something to ponder.

 

Mike

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

So, do you guys think I just shouldn't display the long description in listings at all? At this time, I don't, but I've gotten perhaps three or four questions about it over the past several months, and a couple of board members have inquired about it. They weren't really questioning the policy itself, but rather what initiated it.

 

As far as I can tell, it has caused me no issues whatsoever. I have gotten excellent bids for the few certified coins I've been selling.

 

(It should be noted that I seldom sell certified coins on eBay anyhow.)

 

Tradedollarnut, just to clarify, I believe you would buy such a coin with a CAC sticker and no return policy, correct?

 

Mike, I would rather folks buy coins wherever they can get the best price and deal. If that means passing on mine, honestly, that is fine with me. And I tell people that all the time.

[Tradedollarnut]

Tradedollarnut, just to clarify, I believe you would buy such a coin with a CAC sticker and no return policy, correct?

 

I'm a collector of high end coins - I will buy a coin sight unseen only in very specific cases: the grade doesn't matter much, the coin is reknowned, or the downside in price if I have to dump it is outweighed by the opportunity.

 

The most important aspects of the sticker to me is that the coin has been screened for problems and is nice for the grade. Neither assures the coin will meet my personal criteria for purchase.

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Gotcha. At any rate, per suggestions above, I've shortened the text.

 

Basically, my argument is that NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG already guarantee the grade and quality of a coin, so why should I take on additional expense of double-guaranteeing it? That is a real expense, and I would rather rid myself of that expense in exchange for lower bids. (By the way, it isn't apparent to me that I've been getting lower bids for certified coins.)

 

[Oldtrader3]

There are many coins out there that are from those four grading companies that are not accurately graded. James, you and I both know that grading standards vary, as does almost everyone on this board know this. IMHO, you are slaying the mythic dragon on this issue, driven by your own personal offense with Ebay policy. What you are doing will not in any way hurt Ebay, just your business. You may feel justified, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory with no winner. Ebay has the money and they do not need your or my business.

 

I have purchased coins from you and know that you are honest and fair but I personally will not buy certified coins from anyone without a return guarantee. Even though my own coin return quarantee has annoyed me with frivolous returns occasionally, I always came out better in the end.

[braddick]

I strongly disagree with this policy as it comes off as arrogant and self-serving. Couple that with the personal creed of not allowing other peoples behavior (in this case, eBay) to dictate my own, makes me believe your self imposed rule is a poor one.

[DC Dawg]

Hey James... try this as a single paragraph:

 

EBay has deemed that only coins in NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG may be advertised with a numeric grade and/or the term "certified" in auction headings. Ebay's endorsement means that such coins in the "big 4" holders are set apart from uncertified coins. Since Ebay considers the grade from these services as an absolute fact, and since these grading services already have guarantees, Ebay's action suggests an additional guarantee is not necessary since certification by these companies is the only one that matters. Therefore, I will not provide an additional, superfluous guarantee.

These are your words just summarized!

 

An alternative would be Buy the coin, not the holder!

 

Scott

[Tradedollarnut]

Why not just state "I prescreen all my coins for quality so I'm sure you'll be happy. However, I'm willing to accept lower bids in exchange for not hassling with returns"

 

[DC Dawg]

Why not just state "I prescreen all my coins for quality so I'm sure you'll be happy. However, I'm willing to accept lower bids in exchange for not hassling with returns"

 

Because there are insufficiently_thoughtful_persons on eBay who needs things spelled out!

 

Scott

[Tradedollarnut]

Do they know what 'superfluous' means?

[DC Dawg]

Do they know what 'superfluous' means?

Point made!

[jgrinz]

Do they know what 'superfluous' means?

Point made!

 

superfluous: exceeding what is sufficient or necessary

 

For those back woods people without a dictionary in hand when SCOTT B talks

 

hahahah

 

Wonderful rendition of James' text but Delete "big 4" to say "these" thus not giving honoration to those entities by calling them that.

Thus staying somewhat neutral in its context and being more informational.

[ant]

such a good point james! and i would just use the first paragraph. it says prety much that the GRADERS have a gaurantee and seller isnt held responsable for grade.

[gmarguli]

I'd strip that down quite a bit to: "I do not accept returns on certified coins. Should you disagree with the condition of the coin, please contact the grading company about their review process and guarantee."

 

I'm actually not sure you will see lower bids for these coins. Some sellers I follow offer no return privilege, take so-so pictures, and have little or no description. However, they get decent prices. I think the average eBay bidder gets dumber and dumber every day.

[TomB]

It's lame and it appears to be a temper tantrum. You are debating semantics and completely ignore the fact that it is the coin that is of utmost importance and not the assigned grade. That is not the text of a true numismatist.

[jgrinz]

It's lame and it appears to be a temper tantrum. You are debating semantics and completely ignore the fact that it is the coin that is of utmost importance and not the assigned grade. That is not the text of a true numismatist.

 

Wow Tom I do not think I have seen yer dander rise to this intensity before

 

BRAVO

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

For me....Ebay policies have no baring on how I treat my customers or how I want to be treated when I purchase a coin. It's not possible to fully judge what a coin will look like in hand so offering the return policy allows my customers to view the coin in hand and decide if it meets with their approval......meeting with the grade is a seperate mater that I would not get into with them...I would simply tell them to send the coin back.

 

I don't have a problem with what your doing...hey it's a free country......but if you think that taking that approach is not impacting your business or if you can afford to lose out on potential sales then...I'd post the note in your auctions and keep on trucking. For what it's worth...I do think this would be a negative for a lot of Ebayers and could impact you in the long run but again...it's your business...run it how you like (thumbs u

[123cents]

I think not offering a return policy on graded coins cuts down on sells. If you don't have a problem with losing some sells, go ahead and institute your coin policy.

[pendragon1998]

James, I like you, but I strongly disagree with you here.

 

I think that what you're essentially saying is, "buy the slab, not the coin." Would your policy be okay for a generic modern item like a silver eagle? Probably. Would it be okay for any sort of 'real' coin, where an in-hand viewing could reveal an issue that was not apparent in your photos, despite a technically-correct grade? No way.

 

I'm with TomB - that policy is pretty lame and not worthy of a numismatist. I would never buy from a seller with such a policy. You're shooting yourself and your customers in the foot and eBay won't give a krap. I strongly advise against it.

[EZ_E]

I'll be listing lots of stuff this weekend on ebay. I certainly do not want to be hassled with returns so I plan to list any flaws as a caveat and encourage questions.

 

Am I sabotaging myself?

[gmarguli]

I'll be listing lots of stuff this weekend on ebay. I certainly do not want to be hassled with returns so I plan to list any flaws as a caveat and encourage questions.

 

Am I sabotaging myself?

 

Yes. Stress the positives. Only point out the negatives if absolutely necessary (meaning the picture doesn't show it and it is a big negative).

[James_OldeTowne]

Whoa! I leave for a couple of hours and find fifteen new replies.... all right already ! I think I get the hint - the policy has got to go !!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks for the terrific responses and feedback. Just the simple fact that this is an issue for me tells me more and more that I must find an alternative to eBay. It's gotten to where I can't stomach them anymore.

 

I guess the deciding factor for me has to be that I am selling a consignor's coins, so I should take the steps necessary to ensure the best possible bids. And if the policy lowers bids, then it must go.

 

I just wish like heck eBay had strong, national competition.

 

One last thing - I think (hope) everyone here realizes that I would still accept a returned NGC or PCGS coin or whatever. My return percentage is extremely low over the past few years, maybe a quarter of a percent?

 

(thumbs u

[kryptonitecomics]

good move....we would have still loved you either way....but I think your doing what's best for you and your customers.....Ebay can go to

[DC Dawg]

Thanks for the terrific responses and feedback. Just the simple fact that this is an issue for me tells me more and more that I must find an alternative to eBay. It's gotten to where I can't stomach them anymore.

If you have a suggestion, I would welcome it! I have not posted to eBay since the boycott. But I have some stuff to sell and need a venue!

 

Scott

[James_OldeTowne]

Oh yeah? Well, all I can say is - you guys better be bidding like heck on my stuff - and not returning any of it!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tradedollarnut]

Got an 1875-P chopmarked trade dollar? I'll bid!