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Phoenix coin show pick up and other news

Started by stinkycheese1,

16 posts in this topic

stinkycheese1

stinkycheese1

Posted
Posted

Hi everyone, well I guess this isn't a show report in the truest sense.

 

I went to the coin show and met 2 people on this forum. GDMSP (Sp?) and Mark feld. Both were very nice, and it was a pleasure to meet them in person. Mark told me not to buy anything which would've been in my best interest. But I did...I felt that since it was a big show I could find what i was looking for.

 

As for my class, it was great. I was confused on some parts on the conservation and grading class. The authentication class was great though, I *really* enjoyed that one. Not only that, but I got to look at tons of counterfeit gold coins. And even better, to my surprise I could spot the dianostics on pretty much all of them. Brian, the instructor and current NGC grader, told me what to look for and helped me out with a few pieces I could not find anything wrong with. The dollars and 2 1/2 indians were the hardest to spot the counterfeits. Especially the dollars.

 

The easiest for me were the saints. Surprisingly, spotting the depressions weren't anywhere close as difficult as I thought it would be. Looking at a photo for the depressions like bill fivaz's book I at least could hardly recognize them. But when you get a counterfeit coin in person and tilt it under the light, you can see the circular depressions (they look like circular pits) and linear deperssions quite easily.

 

Something I had a little problem on was spotting some of the deperssions with contact marks, especially the smaller depressions. Apparently if I got this right, the depression blends in with the luster of the coin while the contact mark is shiny and reflects light.

 

I asked brian how I did and he said I should be able to spot most of the counterfeits. The class gave me a great deal of confidence, I took lots of notes. It was great.

 

When I went to the show i was looking for vietnamese gold bars, more like wafer bars. They are very thin. I was only planning to go to the coin show 2 days, the 6th (I had an early bird ribbon) and the 7th , when the public opens. So I go there on the 6th, and I meet jonathan kern, an ancient coin person, he deals with ancient and medievil coins. He had some shipwreck gold bars in is case too. He had 1.2 troy oz gold vietnamese gold bar wafers, and a 1/4 oz vietnamese gold wafer bar. He told me the 1.2 oz were probably made in the usa (I think if I remember correctly they had USA on them too) despite a lady telling him she swore she got them from vietnam.

 

He told me the 1/4 oz gold bar probably was from vietnam. It was $347. Gold spot at the time was around $243 for a 1/4 oz. So I told him to hold it for me. On the 7th, the next day, I came back. I searched around before I made the purchase. I found another one in another case from a different seller who had it in a bezel. But it was a jewelery piece and much of the detail was gone on the piece. The bezel was 18 karat. It did weigh more than the jon kerns one, it weighed 11 grams. And he offered to sell it to me for $300. It was tempting, but I decided I'd rather one have that had better details.

 

So I bargained with jon and got his piece down to $300 and I bought it.

 

I thought the 7th was the last day I'd be there, but on a last minute note, my friend told me he'd take me down there since he was going to the coin show to deal. To my horror, I found another person was selling a 14 gram gold vietnamese wafer bar, for around $430. It had pretty much twice the gold in it for only $130. Surely this was a better deal, and it was. I bought the bar from jon for a collectors premium, about %20 .This was selling for basically melt. Apparently they do have collectors premium. I didn't have the money for the 14 gram bar anyway, so I couldn't buy it. But since those people would be at the scottsdale coin show locally, I figured I might be able to pick it up at that coin in a week.

 

So I was pretty upset, and I told the dealer next to his table about it. I kind of vented with him. He was pretty nice. So, I was happy at least I'd see the bar at the next show. The man told me they do not sell for a collectors premium. As the dealers were packing up, and I couldn't believe this, but the dealer next to the person selling it who I talked to, bought it. I asked him if he would sell it and he said he was keeping it. I couldn't believe it.

 

So I learned a great lesson, if you find a deal, keep your mouth shut!

To get a sense for it, this website is selling the same 14 gram bar for $550, over $100 more.

 

.

 

A little history about the bars:

They come in 14 gram, 1.2 oz, and approx 1/4 oz sizes. They were smuggled out of vietnam during the vietnam war and before. People would stuff them into their shoes, etc to sneak them out. I believe they were made in the 1920's-1930's. The one I have is folded up on the back. I included a picture of the back of the bar. If you look at it, you'll notice it says "OR PUR" which means pure gold in vietnamese. These bars were 9999 fine.

 

Here's a better history on them:

http://www.usagold.com/gold/coins/kim-thanh.html

 

It's very hard to find dealers who know about these, have them for sale, or even know anything about them. I only found 2 dealers in the whole show who know anything about them, and they don't know much. If you know more of the history behind these great things, let me know.

 

 

Here are pictures of the bar I bought. I also got this neat looking token nickel, for a trivia game. The guy passing them out said he had an extra one, and gave me one

 

MONEYPICKUPSHOW2.jpg

MONEYSHOWPICKUPORPUR1.jpg

GoodLuckBest.jpg

ASheet.jpg

 

PS: Any guesses what he means by "N sheet"? Perhaps its "A sheet"? That makes more sense at least

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted

Might be AV, could be bad handwriting and it is AU (all of my hand written U's look like V's) Either way it still means gold sheet.

 

Kevin, sounds like you had a great time. It also sounds like the authentication class was well worth it! You are obviously picking more understanding that you thought you were. And it should be a confidence builder for you.

 

I'm glad to see that did pick up the bar from Jonathan instead of jumping on the other one. You'd made a verbal commitment and standing by your commitments is very important in this hobby. If you become known for backing out on your word you'll find that in the future no one will deal with you on credit, hold anything for you, or look for things for you. Everything becomes cash up front.

 

So I learned a great lesson, if you find a deal, keep your mouth shut!

Yep, a very true lesson. Just make sure you remember it.

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Just Bob

Just Bob

Posted
Posted

Hey, Kevin, Way to go!

 

I'm highlighting these quotes for you, so if you ever start doubting yourself, just come back and read your words.

 

 

And even better, to my surprise I could spot the dianostics on pretty much all of them.

 

Surprisingly, spotting the depressions weren't anywhere close as difficult as I thought it would be.

 

I asked brian how I did and he said I should be able to spot most of the counterfeits. The class gave me a great deal of confidence, I took lots of notes. It was great.

 

 

 

 

And don't fret about the gold piece. It's just one instance, at one show. There will be other opportunities, so just be patient. :)

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jtryka

jtryka

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Posted

Congrats Kevin! Sounds like you had a great learning experience and picked up a neat piece of history with that gold wafer. And I believe that "OR PUR" is French for pure gold, as Vietnam was a former French colony. I never knew about the refugees smuggling this sort of thing out during the war, very interesting part of history. And I think this is likely the best post I've read from you!

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EZ_E

EZ_E

Posted
Posted

What a great and well-written post! I had never heard of the Vietnamese sheet gold before. Very interesting.

 

And in Spanish Oro Puro is pure gold. It is related to French so that is what OR PUR means, most likely.

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construct

construct

Posted
Posted

This is a great report. I'm very pleased to hear of your progress in authentication. And all the information about the gold bars was new to me as well. Thanks for telling us about it.

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