Professional Numismatic Advice Solicited

[EZ_E]

I have a modest bid on this Chain Cent. I would like to know if you (Mark Feld, Greg M., Michael, TDN, Bill Jones, James G., etc.) think that this will cross into a PCGS holder. If not then why?

 

This coin is graded PCI P1.

 

What do you think the market value of this coin is in the PCI slab? In a PCGS slab?

 

I'd truly appreciate any coaching you're willing to offer. Thanks.

 

1793 Chain AMERICA. Poor-1 (PCI).

 

Sheldon number uncertain, surfaces uniformly micro-granular, obverse worn smooth with just a hint of the design type present but so faint as to preclude identification by this writer. Reverse has some faint details present, mainly the suggested outline of the chain motif, the peripheral legends are all but imperceptible.

[MarkFeld]

Victor, while the major grading companies are often, if not usually more forgiving of rarer coins, the reverse looks rough enough such that it might be deemed corroded or ED. Either way, if your ultimate goal is to own such a coin in a PCGS holder, I would recommend waiting until you find one already in the holder. It's simply not worth the potential aggravation, disappointment, etc. to buy one with the intent of trying to cross it. Sorry, I don't have a good idea as to the coin's value.

[Tradedollarnut]

That's pretty cool though. Maybe you can do a cross at any grade! !

[EZ_E]

Mark, yeah, that's what concerned me as well--the reverse.

 

That's pretty cool though. Maybe you can do a cross at any grade! !

 

 

[gmarguli]

The level of hideous the TPG allow for very early copper amazes me and this coin looks better than many I've seen slabbed.

 

I do think it would be slabbed by PCGS/NGC, but I'm not sure I would bet a few grand on it. I don't know where this is for sale, but I would not be confident that PCI could properly authenticate this coin.

 

This is a fairly common coin already in PCGS/NGC plastic, so I'd personally wait for one to come along rather than gamble on this one. And personally, I'd rather have none, an electrotype, or a Gallery Mint copy than spend a few thousand on this quality of coin.

[EZ_E]

And personally, I'd rather have none, an electrotype, or a Gallery Mint copy than spend a few thousand on this quality of coin.

 

I used to feel that way but I had to modify my thinking if I have any hopes whatsoever of finishing my type set.

 

And, I agree, I've seen much more corrosion than this in the big 2 slabs.

[truthteller]

I have seen higher graded coins in PCGS holders with the same amount of corrosion. I believe this coin will grade at PCGS.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[James_OldeTowne]

Based on what I have seen in holders, my guess is that it can be certified. We all know how amazingly inconsistent the services are with copper, so it's quite possible it would take multiple attempts, but I think the odds are excellent you can get it holdered.

[EZ_E]

Cool! I've had the first part of my question answered.

 

Now, discuss its VALUE, please.

[IGWT]

I used to feel that way but I had to modify my thinking if I have any hopes whatsoever of finishing my type set.

 

Who's in control here, you or the set?

[Conder101]

I like it and I would buy it for my collection (That kind of condition would be about the only way I could come close to affording it.) It is also the only variety of chain cent that I still need, the S-1 AMERI.

[EZ_E]

It is also the only variety of chain cent that I still need, the S-1 AMERI.

 

Wow, you have good eyes to make that out. You're positive?

[EZ_E]

I used to feel that way but I had to modify my thinking if I have any hopes whatsoever of finishing my type set.

 

Who's in control here, you or the set?

 

That's like asking who's really in control: the husband or the wife? :þ

[IGWT]

I used to feel that way but I had to modify my thinking if I have any hopes whatsoever of finishing my type set.

 

Who's in control here, you or the set?

 

That's like asking who's really in control: the husband or the wife? :þ

 

You'll find out soon enough.

[EZ_E]

I used to feel that way but I had to modify my thinking if I have any hopes whatsoever of finishing my type set.

 

Who's in control here, you or the set?

 

That's like asking who's really in control: the husband or the wife? :þ

 

You'll find out soon enough.

 

YunYun is very skilled at letting me think that I'm in charge but, deep down, I think we know better.

 

But, hey, she gets up an hour early to cook me a good Chinese lunch to take to work and then will give me a foot massage until I fully wake up to go to work.

 

Sigh....... [font:Comic Sans MS] Life Is Good! [/font]

[cpm9ball]

I used to feel that way but I had to modify my thinking if I have any hopes whatsoever of finishing my type set.

 

Who's in control here, you or the set?

 

That's like asking who's really in control: the husband or the wife? :þ

 

You'll find out soon enough.

 

YunYun is very skilled at letting me think that I'm in charge but, deep down, I think we know better.

 

But, hey, she gets up an hour early to cook me a good Chinese lunch to take to work and then will give me a foot massage until I fully wake up to go to work.

 

Sigh....... [font:Comic Sans MS] Life Is Good! [/font]

 

Geez, Victor, you sound terrible! You should do something about that hacking cough.

 

Chris

[EZ_E]

Geez, Victor, you sound terrible! You should do something about that hacking cough.

 

And I'm the non-smoker. :þ I got a "Z" pack today of antibiotics. No problem, though. I just picked it up along with the Viagra.... NOT! I'm not quite that old....yet.

[michael]

Victor, while the major grading companies are often, if not usually more forgiving of rarer coins, the reverse looks rough enough such that it might be deemed corroded or ED. Either way, if your ultimate goal is to own such a coin in a PCGS holder, I would recommend waiting until you find one already in the holder. It's simply not worth the potential aggravation, disappointment, etc. to buy one with the intent of trying to cross it. Sorry, I don't have a good idea as to the coin's value.

 

(thumbs u

[Conder101]

It is also the only variety of chain cent that I still need, the S-1 AMERI.

 

Wow, you have good eyes to make that out. You're positive?

Yes, I'm positive. It isn't hard to tell, you can clearly see the I in UNITED, the joining of the two links directly below it and the N in ONE. Now there were only two reverse dies used for the chain cents, the AMERI used only on S-1 and the AMERICA reverse used for S-2 thru 4 and NC-1. On the AMERI reverse a line drawn from the I down to the center of the N passes thru the joining of the links. On the AMERICA reverse it passes completely to the right of the joining.

 

If you decide not to buy it contact me off the thread (email is in my profile or by PM.) and let me know what they want for it.

[EZ_E]

Thanks, Conder. (thumbs u

 

Very useful information.

 

...and, sure thing.

[just carl]

Maybe it's just me but I'd pass on any coin in that condition. I just have a preference to coins that are much better and don't appear to have just been dug up in a park or something. Just my opinion.

[BillJones]

I think they might grade it, but there is some roughness. I have seen these things on perfectly smooth planchets with about the same amount of wear.

 

And yes, it is an Chain Ameri. S-1. As Condor said there are only two reverse dies with the Chain Cents. The obverse is not an S-4, which you can tell by what is left of Ms. Liberty. And the reverse the position of the upper "1" on the fraction 1/100 is in the right spot relative to the "EN" in "CENT to be an S-1.

 

It's surprising how often one can attribtue a dateless early large cent. I've even done with 1802 and 1803 coins.

 

And no, this would be too far gone for me. I once saw and 1902 old reverse half cent that was almost this bad, but you could tell the reverse if you held it at certain angle. And old time New England collector owned it for two years before he knew what he had. At the time I would jumped at owning it, but never got the chance.

[michael]

my value

 

$2500.00-$3500.00 retail in a pcgs poor-1 slab with ameri. on the slab

[EZ_E]

Thank you, Mike. That's about what I figured it at, too. (thumbs u

 

p.s. Bill, thank you for all of the useful info. Knowing this is an "AMERI." cent makes a big difference in what my max bid will be.

 

Thank you, gents, for all of the input.

 

Mark gave excellent advice but I feel confident that it will slab---eventually.

[EZ_E]

I once saw and 1902 old reverse half cent that was almost this bad

 

Bill, would you clarify?

[BillJones]

I once saw and 1902 old reverse half cent that was almost this bad

 

Bill, would you clarify?

 

The "old" reverse of the 1802 half cent was a left over die from the 1790s. It has a very distinctive look that very defferent from the later coins. Here is the reverse of a 1797 half cent and an 1802 "new reverse half cent.

 

Style of the 1790s - similar to the 1802 C-1

 

 

Reverse of 1802 C-2

 

 

Even in low grade when I held the coin to the light at a certain angle I could easily see that the coin was an 1802 C-1 half cent.

 

Only about a dozen 1802 "old" reverse half cents are known. The finest known examples can only be call "VF" with minor problems. The entire issue was stuck with salvage dies. The obverse is an 1800 die, never used, that was over dated to 1802. And the reverse, as I wrote before, was left over from the 1790s.

 

Here is the obverse:

 

 

[EZ_E]

Thanks, Bill. That was interesting. The pics really made it. I also found the story of the 1878 S half dollar interesting. Facts like this and treasure hoards rank high on my fascination list. (thumbs u

[Conder101]

If the reverse was left over from the 1790's it was never used then. It is the same reverse die that was used to strike the 1800 half cent though. The style is very similar to that used on 1797 C-3 (which is the variety you pictured) which was struck in 1800. It doesn't really come close to anything before that.

[EZ_E]

Well, I won the coin for $1850 including the juice. I think that I did well in this market especially since it is the AMERI. variety.

 

Thanks for pointing that out to me, boardsters!

 

You guys rock!

 

So, do you think I did well or did I just blow my money?

[Conder101]

If I had the cash I'd take it off your hands at that price.